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VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777
On a brighter note, got a little bit more done on the week end. Now I have the trans cooler lines etc done was able to get the front bar back on. First time its been together since she got dismantled for paint.
Also the 3/16 stainless brake line arrived, have borrowed my uncles double flare tool, did a couple of test flares and nice bends, actually I think it will work really well. So probably will turn my attention to finishing off all the brake lines and hard line to the ABS module etc.
Couple of pics of the front, it really needs a good wash, but still looks ok.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well the parts above are the right numbers, problem is one of them wont work :( Like a lot of stuff on this build its the little thing that get you. The smaller of the two fittings (M16X1.5) run too close to the pipe on the Pacemakers, so you cant get the fitting on. So kicked the cat, chucked a few tools around then did a head scratch. I have managed to find a -6AN banjo thats M16X1.5, I think that will solve the issue, just have to wait for it to arrive.
Moved onto finishing off the oil cooler and mounting the nice billet filter mount, with kick ass Nascar size oil filter. Its one of the things I personally hate about modern cars, i really think the filters are just way too small. Actually quite relaxing making up the braided lines, turned out pretty neat i think. Will have to come up with a relocation of the washer bottle but that’s not a biggie.
Also picked up my oil adaptor plate of agentcrm, he’s done a great job of it, did a test fit, I think it will work great, so just have to think about who to see about making me up some 1/2″ stainless bent tube then tigging it up and that finishes off the oil system.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by
VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Bit of an update after talking to my engineer about a few things, thought I would post up what I have found.
Note : This info applies to South Australia only, other states (especially the east coast) may (and do) vary, it also varies between engineers.
Brakes
He is happy with my solution to the offset by using a different hat and spacing out the calliper bracket. He was thinking it may be worth drilling and wiring the bolts that hold the hat to the disc, I am not so sure about that, so I will ask Wilwood if they have any cyclic test data on them (which I am sure they would have) worst case by uncle is a retired aircraft engineer so I will get him to show me how its done. He is also happy with my new ABS location.Clearance
I asked him if there was an arbitrary number for minimum clearance, I had heard the figure of 10mm mentioned. So that’s the minimum distance between the alternator and chassis, exhaust to body etc etc. There is NO such number. As is so common to what I have found with engineering it comes down to what is sensible and safe. This is what he said-:“5 mm clearance is usually adequate but perhaps to 6 to 8 sought”
Fuel System
Re putting a surge tank ect in the boot. Seems it can be done, he “prefers” to see it in its own enclosure, with a vent down through the fllow out of the car. This is what he has said -;The negative aspects of in boot pump location are noise and sealing. We have had success with putting the whole assembly in a box, even with a sealed polycarbonate transparent side and fitting panel nipples to take fuel and power cables into and out of the pumps and surge tank. The whole box can be sealed and removed as a unit and drained to beneath the car if there should be a leak.
In my case I am leaning toward making it hidden ie covered in carpet, so it more or less looks like a sub box, but there again maybe a polycarb side would look OK.
Anyhow, just wanted to post it up for interests sake.
Edit: Just found a specific section on the Wilwood brake site showing how to wire the bolts!
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Very glad to say got the brakes sorted. Drew up some spacer plates for the calliper mounts, they are doweled as well. Will also get some high tensile longer bolts. Bolted up perfectly today, I think that’s pretty well done and dusted, so its lines and hoses time.
Also finished off the ABS relocating mount, so I used the original mount, cut off the part of it where it bolts to the inner guard and welded it where I had cut away the weld. Then made up a box section. It bolts into the floor of the battery area one bolt goes through the existing hole in the bottom, the other I will need to drill. I think it looks like its meant to be there.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well what a thing of beauty, if that doesnt keep it cool nothing will, at this stage I have just dropped it in there for a quick test fit.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Got the engine oil cooler mounted today, bloody hot over here so calling it a day. Really happy with how it went, made up a right angle bracket out of 25mm angle for one side, cut & shut it and welded, nailed a nice weld too, cant beat that buzz of a novice like me nailing a weld first go when you haven’t done it for a few months :) Made up a 25mm flat bar bracket for the other side as that where the fittings enter/exit.
Thought I would hold off ordering the fittings until I had it in there since they are so expensive to get wrong, went in nicely with the entry/exit on the engine side, so two 90 degree fittings should work a treat then one hose directly to the engine, the other to the remote filter. Also neatened up the supplied wiring which was a little loose and ordinary.
It looks closer to the washer bottle than it is, and it will give me some nice room to run some large diameter flexible ducting from the side vent in the front grill up to the front of the radiator if I need to.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Thanks for the tips, definitely the tyres need to be road legal, not coming this far and stuffing that up!! Will have a look at the Toyo’s.
Well got my beautiful new tensioner in the post today, have to say I love Aeroflow stuff, reasonably priced for that sort of gear and oh so nice. Fitted it up, got a standard GM power steering pump mount plate. The pump and plate look a bit ordinary, might look around and see what else is available. I have a nice polished fabricated reservoir but Holden didn’t have the mount plate in yet.
edit : maybe stupid next time should take the time to look at the belt path before he attempts to fit it ha ha
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well got a fair bit done today, first minor snag I hit was that the tool to lock the engine from turning so you can torque the balancer bolt, fits into the starter mount and so wont work with the starter swap kit. I had some flat bar and luckily my trick flex plate has other sets of holes so I was able to make up a locking bar to the bottom bell housing bolt holes. once I have done i will paint it up and keep it, sure it will come in handy again.
Second issue is the OE balancer doesn’t have a key, but the new one does. There is the keyway in the end of the crank so its no real drama, but I need one to finish fitting it. Just a bummer as I would have got it all done and dusted but tried ringing around, no one had one so it needs to wait until Monday. Have to say having the special tool kit made it a pretty easy task. I got blutac and put it over all the bolts etc and then offered up the Edelbock timing case to check clearance and there seems to be at least as much clearance to the split timing case as the original, so maybe they are right there are only issues if you go to a double row timing chain that from everything I have read is simply not required on an LSx anyhow. Must say its not the first O ring I have had to fit like that, trick i learnt ages ago was to pack the groove with grease so it holds it in place so you don’t catch it when doing it up.
As I got as far as I could with the balancer I had a good look at the alternator. On mine, not sure they all do, there was a small protrudence in the casing, I ground that off and with the Aeroflow billet mount I have there is about 11mm clearance to the chassis. I got a 10mm diameter pin and it clears easily. Its tight but its tight everywhere so should be OK. All the mounts from what I can see would have the same issue, as the bolts go through the alternator directly into the block. I reckon if its an issue, the two options are (1) Slot the holes in the alternator so you can move it a couple of mm harder against the block, trouble is it makes the alternator custom, and really needs to be done by a machine shop, or (2) source a slightly smaller alternator, I would be surprised if there is not one out there somewhere.
Had a look at the radiator and cooler stuff. I think I can fit one side radiator on the passenger side, but the drivers side is a no go due to the way the battery box sits there. On Monday will chat to PWR and see what they reckon, maybe a trans cooler to the side, as that’s the one I am really concerned with as its heat that kills auto’s, and maybe the engine cooler piggy backed to the rad, not sure on that.
And then the oil adaptor, what a pain in the friggin arse. Its just a shit, its just so close in there. On the LS1 forum a guy has put me onto some very slimline 90 degree elbows, so maybe a 10 or 12mm stainless plate tapped -12AN will work with them. Probably have to get them to see and make it up as I go along.
Have to say today for the first time I reckon I hit that point everyone seems too when doing a car like this. When I look at the car there are just so many small issues to be sorted its a bit over whelming. Its just that just about everything needs a tweak here or there. Anyhow i have come to far to stop now, just need to get a bit energised about it, she will be nice when she’s done but she certainly is not making it easy for me
Few pics
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Btw, struck a bit of a snag last night. Got hold of a really nice Aeroflow billet alternator mount, it arrived yesterday, along with the alternator so had a quick trial fit. had a bit of a DOHH moment as my pulleys are 22mm (7/8″) out of alignment.
Something I was unaware of is there are three “depths” of harmonic balancer on LS series engines, Corvette (LS3), Camaro (LS1/2) and Truck (I don’t think in Oz)
So it seems the LSx454 is the LS3 style balancer, so I either need to get LS3 specific ancillary mounts, or change the balancer to the LS1 style and run the LS1 parts. I think I will have an easier time getting the LS1 style stuff and changing to a better damper is a good thing anyway. So I am looking into buying a nice after-market balancer, probably fit at ARP bolt while I am at it, and maybe the split timing case.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well its pretty much in completely now :) Really happy, I took my time and got the engine where I wanted it, the way I have done it I was able to spin all the engine mount bolts in pretty much by hand, so I know its not fighting against itself. Tbh its only a few mm from where it would have sat, but has made a lot of difference especially around where the extractors come down past the steering boots. I will try and get hold of some heat shield and make up some shields for them and also the starter but I can do that later.
In the end I went to a wrecker and picked up a crappy standard VR/VS gearbox cross member, and re drilled it to suit the Tuff mount, cleaned it up and painted it and it looks way better and I think will be much stronger.
Also got under with a rotary brush and cleaned off the pain and crap off the handbrake brackets and cable and got it looking schmick, bit anal I know but it looked out of place all crappy. One day I will drop the sub frame, gearbox cross members and get them powder coated but for not they look good enough.
Am going to make up a cover plate for the bottom half of the bell housing, will paint it orange and drill and tap the adaptor ring and screw into that. probably wait until the sub frames out so I have a little more room, but again, that can wait.
Only issue I have to sort now is with the sump it needs an adaptor block for the oil feeds out of the block. The one that came with the sump is set up to come vertically down, unfortunately on our cars that’s exactly where the steering rack is. So I think I will model up my own and have it machined out of ally billet that will take the -10 fittings out sideways, then take the hoses forward with 90 degree elbows.
All in all a great couple of weeks though, here’s a few pics…
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777So got the Tuff Mounts slotted, also have removed the front sub frame ready for welding so thought I would take some pics. The area in yellow I removed, I then used as a base some 100x50x2.5 channel, and cut out the triangular boxes, bit of work in getting it to sit perfect, the lip on the channel tucks up really nice against the underside of what I left of the factory brace. Tomorrow I will get it welded, I think i might hand paint it satin black for now, then fit it. Its very easy to remove. I think I will wait until its all in properly and fitted properly then I can pull it out once I am sure and get it re powder coated. I probably should have done that from the start but, hey live and learn. Should look nice painted up.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by VRSenator065.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Its in
Love to say it’s an easy fit, but its quite a bit of in out, up down, and then shake it all around.
Firstly, much much easier if you just remove the steering rack from the get go, makes it easier to get it back then drop the flywheel/bell housing back behind the cross member and then go back.
Was a actually a bit more difficult with the LSx than the LS3 as the extra bolts on the heads foul the exhaust on the passenger side when you are trying to feed it through. Ended up removing the PS engine mount completely, then moving the drivers side up out of the way and brought the engine forward, fitted the headers. Fed the passenger side down from above, but fed the drivers side up from underneath. Then moved the engine back and down in place. Apart from that relatively straight forward, just fiddly.
Having a nice coldy to celebrate then might go out when its cooler and just look at her. Honestly can say its looks way way better in real life than the photos show, the orange is a great contrast against the Anthracite.
If it cools down later on may fit the rack and starter. few pics
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Woo Hoo, one trick converter fitted and engine/trans ready to drop in
I am using a really nice TCI flex plate specific to the LSx, its quite a bit different to the standard plate, consequently there’s some things that need to be done differently, ones a pretty important one.
Firstly the spacers supplied with the CRS kit aren’t the right length. My converter guy came out to my place yesterday and we trial fitted and measured what we needed. This morning he went to his shop and turned them up and tig’d them to the converter. We also had to use my lathe to trim down the supplied central bush.
He came out again today and we fitted it all (‘ken hot in the shed). Due to the differences you don’t need to run the CRS round adaptor ring for the centre of the flex plate at all. The TCI plate comes with a nice hardened and ground adaptor itself.
The big one though to be aware of is this…
When we were locking up the converter bolts I felt a small “nick” as I rotated the engine around on the harmonic balancer. Luckily we weren’t rushing and so we decided to pull it apart and investigate, it turns out the heads of the bolts that hold the torque converter on foul on the inner part of the profile cut adaptor ring supplied by CRS on the inside of the starter. We ended up reliving it, I took a photo. No doubt it’s the combo I am using but it may be worth checking carefully if your doing it yourself.
All set now ready to go..
Converter Details
TSI Billet, Damper Style Lock Up Clutch
Triple Torrington bearing
800 ft/lb
Sonnax Stator
Custom Sprag
3200-3400 Stall
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777While I am waiting for the converter to be finished thought I would have a go at the headers. I have the larger gaskets coming so meanwhile thought I would have a close look at how well they are a match for the heads.
The gaskets I have for the Pacemakers are about 1mm bigger than the size of the pipes but dead central so I was able to use that as a template. As you can see below there is about a 1mm mismatch between the size of the gasket/pipes at the top of the port. Ideally you want the exhaust to be about 1-2mm bigger than the head port. So I needed to open up the pipes by about 2mm.
I then mounted up the headers to some angle brackets I had to hold it nice and still and marked the headers with black felt tip marker then scribed the port size plus about a 2mm
Given the flange thickness there was quite a bit of meat to work with. So I got into it with a die grinder and took it out to my scribed line and blended it into the pipe. There was also some internal lumps from the weld penetration so I smoothed them off also.
Lastly I used a sanding drum in my Dremel and polished it nice and smooth.
Pretty happy with the result, I guess in an ideal world I would get a complete new set of custom headers built up, but I think they should work pretty good as is.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Couple of good days, front end is reassembled and in. Got the K-Mac struts sorted, luckily there was someone there today, spoke to the guy (very helpful), seems the reason there’s no instructions is it all depends how you want to set the car up. Apparently with VR’s typically you want to move the top of the strut in toward the engine and back toward the windscreen, so I have roughly installed it that way, I will need to take it to a suspension place to get it all dialled in anyway. Also cleaned up the underside and gave it a good cover with under body texture coat. It looks a bit dodgy under there in the pics with the flash but in real life looks great. Steering rack is only loosely in, as it needs to come out to fit the engine.
This is the list of the SuperPro bushes I have used:
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[*]Lower inner control arm bushes – SPF0842K
[*]Z bar to lower control arm bushes – SPF0756K
[*]Z bar to chassis bushes – SPF0240K
[*]Heavy duty sway bar link kit – SPF0987K
[*]Sway bar to chassis bushes (28mm) – SPF1453-28KHave stuck with the OE 28mm sway bar, had it powder coated silver to match the rear Whiteline, Have also fitted new lower ball joints, new tie rod end and steering rack boots.
Went with a Pedders strut brace, painted the tops bright orange, decided it looks OK with the matching cut outs both side so have decided to leave it.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Yea I know, posting too many pictures
Gotta say I think I had a moment when I saw what the headers look like. Picked them up from ceramic coating today, will run heaps cooler than standard, which given the confined engine bay will be good. Also spoke to them about a different (black) ceramic coating specifically to radiate heat that’s supposed to be the ducks guts for sumps, may have it done, still pondering that.
Also pleased to see that the headers seem to match the ports really well, I had planned on match porting them (still may) but if I do I don’t have a lot to do. Considering an ARP header stud set to bolt them up.
Also got the front coil overs from XYZ and also the Kmac strut tops and look really good.
Went to Pedders and checked out the Whiteline, and Pedders strut brace as I wasn’t sure which one to get. Personal preference but I prefer the Pedders that completely circles the tower. Only thing I don’t like is the cut out on the passenger side as the use the same plate for both, and drivers side needs it to miss the overflow mount. I know its over the top but I think I am going to make up a filler piece and weld it in and smooth it over. I am going to try it in orange too as it seems to be a bit of a theme.
Still waiting on the front suspension powder coating, they have promised by Xmas break up (Thursday) hope to hell they keep their word or going to be a pain in the a@#$
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Got a little bit more done today, I want to try and make sure I have everything sorted before the break at Xmas so thought I would fit the oil feed and Canton sump. Have to say I think its going to be ace, I really like it. Its a race front sump with great internal baffling etc. Will go and get unbrako style bolts for it during the week, at this stage have just used the bolts that came with the LSx.
While I had it open I checked the bolts were torqued up on the main and big ends. Not sure how true it is but the rumour is there were a couple came from the factory that weren’t done up. Anyhow mine are fine.
I have settled on going for a remotely mounted oil filter, I want to get it away from the heat of the pipes etc, will go braided lines. I have fitted the adaptor. Love the engraving across the front of the heads, would look pretty cool filled in in orange…
Getting very near the big drop in now
Few pics below
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Great week end all up, survived the work Xmas show so that was a start
Thought I would just just muck around to see how easy it would go back in and actually just kept working and got it all in and bolted up. Slight problem with the idea of going extra high tensile on the camber kit, the bolts I got don’t have the thread all the way up to the head, so they wouldn’t work. I ended up using the supplied bolts, I cleaned them all and used Loctite, I guess I will just keep an eye on them and see how it pans out.
Bloody happy with how the rear end has come together. Can start thinking about if/how/where to do a surge tank, think I will with duel pumps feeding each of the existing hard lines up to the front but will think a bit more about that. Still some stuff to do on the rear like the brake lines etc. but at least its in.
Have to say that the powder coating is awesome, its the way to go, cheap to get done and tough as, several times it got knocked or kit by a spanner etc and it doesn’t chip or scratch at all.
Not 100% sure of the springs that come with the XYZ coil over kit. They are specials made by King, I really like the adjustable height mounting base but unsure what the ride will be like. I do have a pair of SSL’s if they aren’t any good, again will suck it and see. Cant wait to get the wheels and see what it looks like on the ground.
A few photos, (actually a lot), but it needs a few to show it off.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777I have received a very detailed, comprehensive and lengthy reply back from my engineer re questions I have asked in relation to ABS and also the ECU system, in particular the potential of going after market.
I want to point out though, my engineer knows me, in fact he taught me engineering in my associate diploma. He knows my company and work history. I have been involved with mechanical engineering for a long time and so I am sure he is comfortable with how I will approach these things. I am just saying if your engineer wasnt as familiar he may take more convincing.
Also I am in SA, and I am learning a lot of this comes down to his interpretation. But as follows (in shortened form)
Am I able to delete the ABS?
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[*]The ABS does not alter the performance of the braking system and your vehicle will be tested anyway.
[*]If you were wedded to deletion, I would be happy to provide an argument to do so.
[*]I suspect that it could be deleted but deletion is not my first choice.
Am I able to relocate the ABS module?
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[*]Yes. We have done that previously and tested with good results.
[*]Protection of tubing is an issue.
[*]I am conscious of ABS control units tending to be close to the same height as the master cylinder. To minimise unpredictable effects, if possible it is better to keep the ABS manifold at a height similar to the original height.
Am I able to use an aftermarket ECU system on my car?
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[*]I consider emission control as no different to brake system or chassis design. The principles are known, the intent of the regulations is known and cause and effect is understood.
[*]As long as the valve timing is set for emission control and does not lead to inlet fuel discharging through a still open exhaust valve.
[*]I suggest you carry on with the package you want, knowing that the emissions have to be addressed.
What restriction do I have on induction system? (plenum / individual runners / 4 barrel throttle body
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[*]We are not here to stifle the flamboyance of individuals, or to curb their creativity. But I must be able to stand up in a Coroner’s Court and explain why I accepted your recommendations. You must be able to give evidence supporting those recommendations.
[*]So I encourage you to choose the system guided by your knowledge and intuition. I trust your knowledge and intuition and would hate to get in their way.
[*]So all the above can be made to work
All good
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Got a fair way with the rear sub frame re assembly too. For now I am assembling it with the standard drive shafts, I am going to go HD from Diff Technics, but will wait until I get them to also do me a custom tail shaft once it all in. Have ordered a Whiteline 20mm sway bar, should be here Monday. Need to work out what I am doing with the spring insulators, then its pretty much ready to go back in. Really happy how its turned out. Very colourful i know but should look horn back under the car against the dark body colour and black under body.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by VRSenator065.
