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I hear a lot about wideband. So basically the range or “band” it works in is broader? Is there a downside?
The terminology comes from the response curve of the sensor, a ‘narrowband’ sensor is only really accurate around stoich (lambda = 1), either side of this the voltage response is very sharp behaving more like a switch. If you look at a data log of narrowband sensors in exhaust running at stoich you will see it oscillating very quickly either side of their midpoint ~470mV. Narrowbands output this 0-1v reading directly and just need to be read by the controller
Wideband sensors have a different response, much more linear across a range of mixtures typically 0.7 to 1.3 lambda. There are different types of sensors, most common being the Bosch LSU 4.x series. These sensors are much more involved to use as you need circuitry to control the pump cell and monitor the pump current which is the measure of the mixtures. The readings are then linearized into a 0-5V signal proportional to the mixture, some widebands also have a serial RS232 or CAN bus for digital output. Historically, the component and processor to control all of this was expensive in the scheme of things but these days you can get very capable microprocessors for pretty small amount (even in low volumes) – combined with modern SMD technology you can make a very capable unit for a few bucks. Hence you can get a wideband setup for $200 all said and done. Modern cars mostly come with widebands installed already.
One thing to watch out for is wideband sensors are actually “wideband o2” sensors, they actually sense o2 (oxygen) so a misfire as well as cams with a lot of overlap on idle, show as very lean.
bit of a panel beating session ….
Coz race car
LOL yeah don’t mind hitting it with a BIG Hammer!!
Good job on fixing the e-mail notifications as well! (assuming it was GG and not you so thanks to her) ————— Today End! When I was fiddling yesterday I noticed the WBo2 in the Lexcen had finally died, it was one I’d had in my old Supra for a very long time then transferred it to the Tonner when the big engine was in it, I’d added a second sensor and display before I realised it was a WOTAM running Dual so left one in the Tonner and one in the Lexcen… The one in the Tonner I’d sent back and had it converted to read out in Lambda and to have more “range” ended up pulling it and it’s sensor out and putting it into the Lexcen where it’s needed (the Tonner is a more or less stock 5.7 now running the 6.0L Electronics package and stock tune and it’s very well behaved) what wideband are you using?
edit. sorry just saw the threads above.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 12 months ago by
benk.
Very nice! Love a clean white VS!
whered you get the HDT headlight covers from?
Cheers buddy, its really the only area of my build I haven’t really been happy with. So far I am on my third tuner before I found someone I can trust. Trouble is when the car is in their workshop and they are dealing with something that you have little knowledge of, it is sort of out of your control and you are at their mercy. I understand the basic old school philosophy of tuning, but modern ECU control takes it to next level (or more). Its way more than simply looking at AFR’s, and getting the timing right. And actually tuning an large capacity ITB NA set up like mine seems to frighten some people, nowadays its more likely to be turbo or blower when people chase power. All good, great to have some knowledgeable people to kick ideas around with.
with ITB, depending on your setup you may need to run different fueling strategy as map pressure goes straight atmospheric when the throttle opens so you don’t get enough resolution. All can be done on the LS1 ecu with the right tools
Cool thanks, pretty much what I have planned for mine except I use the Rupes pads which are yellow for cut and green for polish from memory
You have me a little nervous, part of having the manualised glide fitted is of course changing mine to think its a manual (well at least that’s what I thought was needed), hopefully that’s all easy and straight forward…
I don’t recall your exact setup but it should just work, the LS1B is a pretty mature platform and popular for conversions even older LT1 have been retrofitted with them. To run a Glide, you would use a manual tune you may need to do some trickery if you make more than 500rwhp in terms of tune scaling in order to have a 100% driveable stock behaving car but it’s been done for sure. You are lucky in that you don’t need to deal with the electronic throttle which isn’t too bad once you know how it works. For your VR you could have retrofitted the stock delco but the advantage with the LS1B is that a lot more people can access the computer and you can run LS1 coilpacks easily without aftermarket modules.
If you have any issues post up in your thread or send me a PM and ill see what I can do to help.
Great to have you part of the Commodores Plus brains trust Ben
glad I can contribute to the other brains on here. A forum like this with great tech info and builds is a rare find these days.
Interesting as I had all those off at once stage and it was still limiting, just wondering if it’s an additional hidden table/parameter that isn’t displayed in EFI-Live.. Thanks again for all your help on this Ben it’s making a massive difference!
There is a lot that isn’t displayed in EFILive or any other aftermarket editing program. With over 2MB of Flash it would be several peoples life work to reveal them all and not to mention, most aren’t needed once its all setup by GM. Even the older stuff with 1/20 of the size, when all the parameters are displayed from the calibration its very detailed and mostly not necessary.
Those cals I mentioned are for the TCS system, but the BTM is a semi-separate subset of the Torque Management system.
Look forward to hearing about the next track day!
Also, there is a “tip in” torque limiting and tip in ETC rate limits (rate at which ETC can open). Check your Pedal vs. TPS trace in the log to see if it is damped, you don’t want an undamped response as it will cause the TB motor to wear out quickly but quicken it up to make sure its responsive. Tip in torque reduction could probably be removed.
You can get some good data rates with the BBL function in your FlashScan V2 so if you get all your parameters sorted then have it running the whole time your on the track you can go back and see what was happening. If you rig on of the digital inputs on the FSV2 to a button that’s easy to reach, you can mark any spots in the log you want to take a closer look at later. Another way is have the log timer displayed on the FSV2 screen and remember the time it occurred however I find it hard to remember what time in the log it was when Im racing around a track
It’s going to be a very different car to drive next event Ben!! What does BTM actually shut down other than the throttle? (felt like it was pulling spark and fuel) Because I trail brake with my left foot I had 0 response mid corner then 100% Power shortly afterwards…
Ok, so for anyone following along – BTM = Brake Torque Management it helps manages delivered engine torque when the brakes are ‘applied’ one of the reasons is it helps with braking rather than have it push through. (BTM is disabled on manuals). So when the brakes input is active the ECM limits delivered torque to a certain amount based on commanded torque (pedal) and engine load. Depending on other settings in the tune, it can manage the torque by one of 3 ways: Spark, Throttle or Fuel cut. The way it limits torque is also dependent on whether it wants a fast torque cut (gear change) or a slow one (some types of engine limiter). Slow types use throttle, fast uses spark and fuel.
In your case with trail braking it would probably use spark… followed by throttle if not enough torque reduction was achieved, your logs should tell you. Also refer B0515 to B0517, only Spark and Throttle are enabled for torque management in the Traction control system which makes sense.. as a fuel cut wouldn’t be very elegant when you have electronic throttle capability.
Today End! Got a file with BTM deleted that works great, can actually flash it to the Stall with the Brake on, thanks Ben! Also took some time to correct the ergonomics of the Drivers seat… when I built the rails I totally forgot I’d be wearing a Helmet in this thing… DOH So I had the back of the seat too upright, when you added the Helmet (or a really HUGE head) it bent your neck forward and wasn’t exactly a comfortable driving position.. Because of all the Chassis Bracing under the seat there was no more adjustment left in the brackets, instead of totally remaking the rails I machined up a pair of 20mm spacers to go under the front mounts, found some +20mm Hi Tensile bolts moved the seat base one notch forward and now it’s just about perfect!
Glad to hear its sorted… now you can get back to making vids WRC style
very nice! I really need to finish polishing mine… What product are you using?
HB body cut, and then polish, which I bought from a paint shop. Finished off with Bowdens Wax
What kind of buffer did you use?great software, a little quirky but you get used to it.
One day I hope to find the time (and $$) to fully dyno tune a off the shelf setup followed by a custom setup as determined by pipemax.
I don’t even know what u drive lol
One day ill get my arse into gear and make a thread up, just so much details and pics dont even know where to start.
do it! but just the highlights
very nice! I really need to finish polishing mine… What product are you using?
I saw your post on EFILive, if you want to send me your file I can have a go at turning off the BTM. Its a common request on 6L tunes. That way itll be off all the time.
Not sure if this helps but I run an engine oil cooler on the passenger side, and my trans cooler is mounted to the front of the Radiator and is big. Not sure you can actually go too big for the trans, and the engine oil cooler takes a heap of load off the regular cooling system. I do also have a small cooler I bought for the power steering but haven’t fitted it yet but will most likely try and fit it on the drivers side, although i have the electric brake vac pump and reservoir there.
What brand cooler is that, a B&M? looks perfect for the VS
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by
Great write up! Melting the power steering reservoir seems to be a common problem when tracking. Not sure if it’s all the cornering under load or pump rpm as you say. Mines a VS Calais converted to manual and had an extra external transmission cooler after the radiator one. I plumbed my power steering via the external cooler only and put a magnafine filter inline from the reservoir to the pump to try keep any stuff out of the pump.
Only done one track day at eastern creek (with the NSW BMW club) and it seemed ok there.
ive also seen people take the end tank off an old radiator and mount the end tank transmission cooler on a bit of angle bar as a budget cooler. You’d get much better cooling with ambient than radiator coolant.
That’s fantastic, just wanted to see what was done. Not often you see a custom front and rear k-frame on a VS.
whats your Facebook page
Just an awesome piece of work mate, now the fun begins
I’m really surprised/impressed by how well it drives straight off the Hoist!
Wasn’t sure what to expect from my suspension/steering design..thats always a win! What was your final suspension/steering design?
Front is a bit of a bitsa, main concern was getting rid of the Stock Bump steer that Holden for some reason seem to think is a good thing, just fabricated lower a arms and used Holden Adventra Struts that I’ve converted to Koni coilovers and Adventra uprights with a Bump steer correction.. Rear I was going to use Holden swing arms but can’t stand the massive camber changes so made a McPherson Strut rear end for it using Adventra Uprights, Struts the same as the fronts and made adaptors to bolt the rear backing plates to them.. ————– Today End! Brakes bled and trimmed the Airdam a touch more as the run the other day left witness marks!
sounds awesome! Got any pics? Didn’t see any in the thread might have missed them tho
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This reply was modified 8 years, 12 months ago by
