[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Yeah VS Senator comes out with LSD.

I think I will need to find someone else who has a VN-VS that does track work and have a chat to them.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Came across this…

“Rear Wheel Drive

Because a rear wheel drive car transfers torque to the road through the back wheels, it’s necessary that they both stay on the ground. Lifting an inside rear wheel will cause wheelspin (in cars without an LSD) and more power oversteer (in cars with an LSD). RWD cars therefore tend to use greater front roll stiffness, provided largely by the sway bar. However, if understeer is strong, a slightly stiffer rear bar can be used.

If a rear-wheel drive oversteers, or a non-LSD car picks up an inside rear wheel and spins it, fit a larger front sway-bar. If the car understeers a lot, fit a bigger rear sway-bar.”

from http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=112694

hmmm… maybe it’s better not to mess with anything, as apart from a little bit of understeer under gas pulling onto the main straight, the car handles great!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by  SSEN8R VS #1081.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

cheers for the advice, something to think about. As the suspension is FE2 spec, although all new / replaced Dec ’14, it still has a bit of body roll onto the main straight which is stopping me getting onto the gas as early as I could. Need to feather a little bit as it understeers slightly – and the wall is really close to the track at that point!

I used to have an VK calais which I put upgraded swaybar, after full suspension upgrade and strut brace (like I have now) and it made it pull across quite well… didn’t take that one on the track tho…

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

I think i’ll have to invest in some DBA 4000 T3 rotors for the rear, same as I have on the front, before the next track day.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

got the car back from mechanics – light machine on the rotors and new Project Mu NS400 pads on the rear. Let’s see how these go http://www.project-mu.com.au/en/products/pad_ns.php

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

any updates on gear knobs VPGTS76?

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

good idea! I got a laser thermometer – backs were almost 300 degrees and front were 225-250 degrees, when I got back into the pits, which was after the cool down lap (3 qtr lap to get back to pit entry). so who knows how hot they were on the track. There are 3 colours on the front rotors, pink / orange / green, and the green did turn grey after the last track day.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

mine never faded, just wore through the pads really really quickly! Think they get to a ‘too high’ temp and the pads just start disintegrating…

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

yeah stock Senator 185i rears, 270mm (i think) solid rotor single piston caliper. 215i had better brakes.

I got the fronts upgraded, but was hoping more than anything that the rears would hold up.

Got braided lines on the fronts.

Was checking everyone elses cars out, while at the track, almost everyone has proper race brakes. There was a BF ute race car (the v8 super car support category style), had massive rotors with AP racing calipers front and rear…. guess commo’s are pretty heavy to pull up again and again…

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Cooked the rear pads and rotors – only done 1.5 track days and less than 1000km on road since new Brembo pads and new rotors… Hmmm seems brakes are the weakest point in taking ya car on track. Absolutely no pads on Left Rear, but a little on Right Rear.

 

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by  SSEN8R VS #1081. Reason: engrish

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

I think they would be fine on the street – 200 tread wear rating. Assume if you misbehave they may not last too long. Channels aren’t as deep as other tyres i’ve had.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Yep, i’m thinking the same thing…

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

I hate all cars that beep when you leave the lights on when you turn the car off – if you can make a buzzer buzz, you can turn the lights off! love that my VS just turns then off.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

What brakes you are running there? Love ya work too!

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Did track day yesterday and the brakes worked quiet well but I think if you are going to be a track day campaigner you need bigger or a proper set up (willwood/AP racing).  See thread in my signature for write up.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Did track day yesterday (see thread in signature) and was really impressed with the hankook RS3/Z222’s. Definitely happy with my purchase. After chatting to some people who said ‘scrubbing’ is for R compound tyres, I put em on at home. For the price ($189 fitted) you can’t go wrong.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Yesterday (29/5/15) did another track day with the BMW Car Club of Qld at Lakeside Raceway.

Since my last track day I have upgraded the front brakes, new heavy duty clutch and got a set of track tyres (hankook RS3/Z222). I was hoping that those upgrades would be enough to take a second or two off my PB time of 1:10.03 – well I ended up with 1:07.5 by mid arvo – pretty happy. Vid at bottom of post.

It took the first couple of hot lap sessions to build some confidence in the brakes and the tyres. The tyres work great, I think I could have even pushed em more, but they do need a lap or two to build up heat in em to get the grip up. Brakes worked great but they need some heat to be effective. I could have pushed them a lot harder but hitting 190km/h at the end of the main straight and stomping on the brakes requires some big balls to do it later and later. Especially when they remind you at the track briefing that Lakeside has had more deaths than every track in oz combined… Was getting the ABS kicking in quiet a lot.

I arrived early and did the track walk with Doug Chapel, where I did pick up a couple of good pointers about the race line, so that would have to account for part of the better times.

Ticked over 199,000km too at the track. The motor didn’t miss a beat but it didn’t like being below 1/3 of a tank other wise would start to cough a little. Not bad for stock original motor – never been rebuilt.

I reset the trip computer before the firt session, surprised the fuel economy wasn’t worse… Supposedly Lakeside has the highest average track speed to.

Ended up doing 10 hot lap sessions, totalling 70 hot laps with very few laps traffic affected. Not bad for $195. I was also quiet happy with my lap time consistency. I did a couple of sessions with all hot laps within less than 1 sec difference.

I shown plenty of expensive BMW’s, like M5 (told $200k) and a couple of M3s, how to drive. I would have been a bit disappointed if I was them. Even an old bloke in an Aston Martin, but he must have been in his mid 70’s so I’ll give him credit for taking his car to the track. Will say that BMW 135i had impressive grunt down the straight, and would be small enough to go fast around the corners with better tyres.

So did I make it home under my own steam, but I think the back brakes are done, and my upgraded fronts, which cost me $2k, don’t seem right and are noisey. Also my brake fluid was down to min (remember had em upgraded a couple of weeks ago and done less than 300km on em), so I top it up to max. It was down to min again by mid arvo, so something isn’t really right there. Guess the brakes were wearing down quickly. Will keep the car in the garage and take it to the mechanic during the week. Still need to swap back to my street tyres, so will have a closer look then.

Next time? Well going overseas for a month in a couple of months so it maybe on hold for a bit, not cos the track day is expensive, prepping and fixing the car is. Also not sure how much more time I could get out of the car without more horsepower. I think a bigger front swaybar would let me carry some more speed onto the main straight. Upgrade the rear brakes to some better rotors (currently solid 270mm) and pads. Think next time I need to go with the HSV car club to meet some other commo track racers, but in Qld their a little quiet on the motorsport front – from their FB they seem to be more worried about selling their couple year old HSV so they can buy the new one.

Vid of PB lap of 1:07.5 chasing a BMW M3. You can see he has more power, but take his foot off the accelerator on a few of the ‘hairy’ spots.

Side by side vid, where you can see the tyres and later braking are making up time all over the track.

some guys take their track days a little too seriously…

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Where did you relocated to? for aesthetics or did the motor hit?

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Got my next Lakeside track day this Friday and I have not taken the car for thrash since I had the new brakes installed. Figured if something was wrong or going to go wrong that I wanted to find out before I went to track, and preferably with some time to get it fixed. So yesterday went for a thrash up my local hoon track – Samford Village to Mt Glorious (Brisbane). See google maps screenshot below – note: I put it on cycle directions as it gives the elevation (~600m vertical).

Went for a cruise up there around sunset and luckily the traffic was really good. BUT every time I gave the car a proper squirt it coughed and missed, almost to the point I thought it was going to stall. I backed off, got to the top and went back down. I didn’t really have much fuel, 1/8th, so filled up and gave it another go.

While I was on the straight section at the bottom of the hill, a Porsche of some type appeared in my rear vision mirror. I sat on the speed limit, well +10kmh. The porsche kept dropping off and flying up my arse. Then we caught up to a slow poke, so I pulled out on a nice over taking spot and the porsche almost blindly followed me out, but there wasn’t any traffic and we could see pretty far ahead. Anyways, got to the fun stuff  with no traffic ahead and gave this porsche a showing. He tried to sit on my arse, but when you know the road, know the spots to behave and know the spots to go hard, I managed to lose him easily or just prove I bigger balls (and a lot cheaper car)! Nah he’s just a sh*t driver. That put a smile on my face especially since the car didn’t miss a beat. Guess it was just the fuel being low, will remember for future.

Bring on Friday. New brakes, new tyres, hopefully decent new PB.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

reading Gary’s /  VRSenator065 posts on other forums.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by  SSEN8R VS #1081.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

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