VW Cheating Emmisions Testing

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I found this a good read explaining what and how VW cheated emissions testing.

Pretty much they have a separate tune that gets activated if the car senses its on a dyno.   Apparently it looked at things like if the steering was being turned or not, so if it wasn’t it knew it must be on the dyno.  pretty clever really

http://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/sep/23/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-explained-diesel-cars

 

 

[Dan811Participant SE Melbourne02 Monaro M6 LS1 View build HERE Member since: March 4, 2015 Posts: 124]

Whilst Morally wrong, is this technically against the law?

The car passed the test, so VW could argue that they’ve implemented the emissions systems to work only under certain circumstances to “protect the engine” or something. Techinically, the car passed the emissions test.

I’d also imagine that their awesome fuel consumption figures would have something to do with their bypassing the emissions equipment.

Whilst I certainly don’t agree with VW’s approach, it really brings to light the holes in the current emissions testing scheme, and hopefully means that they’ll develop a more fool-proof test.

[SmittyParticipant MelbourneGEN-F R8 SV340 HSV Tourer, VK club touring race car and Kwaka ZX12R View build HERE Member since: July 23, 2015 Posts: 47]

Dan811 wrote:

Whilst Morally wrong, is this technically against the law? ………….

 

in the US, the answer is yes. And that is the reason why the US federal authorities are playing hardball with VW.

As the cars don’t normally meet the emission rules when running on the street and the test results are being falsified (by the tune change) to state they do comply when on the street, that is a CRIMINAL offence under US law. In addition,  US Environmental Protection Agency says Volkswagen could face penalties reaching $25 billion over rigged emissions tests on its cars.

The latest I have heard is the US Feds are looking to have VW remove ALL (yes.. ALL)  6 million vehicles
off the street NOW. Customers will be told to return them to a VW dealer and they will not be allowed back until complying engines are fitted. If that is the case.. goodbye VW in the USA

And it is not better at home, just reported on REUTERS –
GERMAN prosecutors have launched a preliminary criminal inquiry into the pollution cheating scandal that has engulfed auto giant Volkswagen

[ajvx01Participant adelaideVC 308 taxi bt1 wanna be! View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 102]

no shock here. My vw t5 has no emission crap and it’s the current model.. I wondered how it passed testing haha!

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yep, when you read right into it, its not only the tune change, there is some hardware stuff as well.  And in the U.S. its not simply the EPA fines, there will undoubtedly be class actions by actual owners claiming compensation as they were misled.  Some reports are saying it may actually be the end of the VW group…

I do think its technically clever, I mean its sort of like me getting my car through emissions, and then being able to flick a switch and run a high power tune, then if a cop walks up switch it back and pass emissions.

The figures are up to 40 times the allowable limit, so even though the US standard is higher, it looks like Australian cars will be caught up in it too, so presumably Europe as well….

[sands vsParticipant vs commodore View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 619]

Wonder whos head will roll over this, and if it has the potential to send them into bankruptcy?

 

 

Also does this mean that the owners will be losing power by getting them to meet the new standards or how will it actually effect the car?

 

 

 

[SmittyParticipant MelbourneGEN-F R8 SV340 HSV Tourer, VK club touring race car and Kwaka ZX12R View build HERE Member since: July 23, 2015 Posts: 47]

VRSenator065 wrote:

…………. it looks like Australian cars will be caught up in it too, …….

 

Yes just listening to the 2pm news …
and it was reported that ACCC have today started investigation into VW Australia for misleading conduct etc (under their set of consumer rules) ….  plus the Commonwealth Dept of Infrastructure (responsible for administering ADRs, vehicle licencing etc) have asked VW Aust for proof that NO vehicle sold in Australia was fitted with the engines and the attached software that has popped up in USA and Europe (that has caused the storm over emissions non-compliance)

I think it will be interesting here

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by  Smitty.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

sands vs wrote:

and if it has the potential to send them into bankruptcy? 

yep sure has

 

sands vs wrote:

Also does this mean that the owners will be losing power by getting them to meet the new standards or how will it actually effect the car?

yep again, lower power & torque

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

So I don’t under stand why would they spend millions to make highly illegal cars ?

 

are they actually capable of meeting the emissions requirements been asked to meet ?

If vw group have done it to pass the test how many others also have done something to cheat the test ??

 

How could someone not see this in the software ?

Surely someone has put a exhaust on one of the 11 million cars and tuned it up

 

how did a tuner not see there was something up when it was on the rollers compared to on the streets

 

how stupid is the authority’s for not doing road test to start with and only testing in a office on set of rollers ?

 

Surley this simple test would of showed it up massively straight away

[KroozerParticipant Forbes, NSW91 VN SS View build HERE Member since: February 19, 2015 Posts: 336]

Couldn’t the time and effort put into cheating the test have been used to just pass the vehicles legally in the first place?   haha

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

This is why Im asking is it even possible to pass the test with out having a lean engine that will eventually destroy its self or be completely gutless ??

 

Other wise theybwould just simply do it the right way

 

and if this is the case other car company’s will surely be doin Similar

 

I think the emissions testing in America must surely be in on it, it’s just to simple and stupid to not pick up on it

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

vs manta 218 wrote:

This is why Im asking is it even possible to pass the test with out having a lean engine that will eventually destroy its self or be completely gutless

 

I think this is partly the answer, remember they are in a highly competitive market, where if you can say your cars use 5% less fuel than the competition I imagine it makes huge difference in sales.

I have been told by my tuner that if a car was picked randomly off the assembly line here it may not pass the IM240 test to our levels, and as I understand it, the Californian laws a much stricter than ours.

I do agree though wtf would they do it, which makes me wonder if they are the only ones?  Is it something that all or most of the manufacturers have a silent agreement on?

As I understand it the only way to see the result is to do the test with the car actually driving, the cheat meant if the car was stationary like in a workshop or on a dyno it switched to the cheat mode.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

If the vehicles can pass the test  then it would suggest that they could also be compliant when on the road with the correct tune adjustments…. obviously this will come at a cost of power/torque and economy which diesels are sold on.

Either way, VW is going to pay and pay and pay and pay and then probably pay some more.

I haven’t looked into it thoroughly but it would seem that the Euro and American tests differ somewhat.  What ever happens, I’m sure more details will emerge in the coming days/months.

 

I believe the California smog test is the toughest in the world.  We here in NZ do wof tests yearly, In the US and in particular  California I believe they have to do smog test every couple of years, they care more about what comes out of the tail pipe than the condition of the rest of the car.  For every vehicle to have to do a smog test it would require a testing facility where a large number of tests can be performed in a short period of time and a rolling road system would be the easiest way to do this.  just imagine if they had to fit every car with test equipment and then go for a cruise……

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by  Immortality.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

My (absolute guess) is the method of the IM240 is the same, its just the thresholds of pass/fail percentages are lower in the US (California).  Be interesting to know.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Bloody hell…..

http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/vw-scandal-a-bigger-risk-for-german-shares-than-greece-20150923-gjtpfj.html

 

[ajvx01Participant adelaideVC 308 taxi bt1 wanna be! View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 102]

if vw go down for this I will be pissed.. They make awesome cars and now that the commy is dead are one of the few manufacturers that have a line up we want to own in our house hold..

 

if VW do this imagine what those crap house China cars do?! I’ve heard reports great wall cars have decapitated test dummies with air bags in independent tests.!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by  ajvx01.

[MichaelParticipant VY Calais 383ci GT42 turbo. View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 208]

Damn and my missus was looking at buying a new VW Scirocco

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by  Michael.

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

I’d put money on it it’s NOT just VW…

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

The Swiss have banned all Euro 5 spec VW group cars that have either not been sold or registered yet.

It would seem that the authorities were aware that this was happening mid 2000’s……

ajvx01 wrote:

if vw go down for this I will be pissed.. They make awesome cars and now that the commy is dead are one of the few manufacturers that have a line up we want to own in our house hold.. if VW do this imagine what those crap house China cars do?! I’ve heard reports great wall cars have decapitated test dummies with air bags in independent tests.!

 

I’m in the same boat, post Commodore I was starting to look at the European brands as I won’t be caught dead in anything of Chinese origin.

The thing is, this seems to apply to Euro 5 spec cars, the Euro 6 stuff is fine.  Not that I’d be looking at diesel anyway, it’s just no me.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by  Immortality.

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