VR Senator with LSx454

[NickVRParticipant AdelaideVR V8 Exec, VR SS, VF Redline Reserve View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 264]

Wow, you have done quite a bit of work on this. The intake looks great and don’t mind the top covers too. I should check in here more often, lol.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea the build thread was “Mr Popular” but I think the novelty has worn off, its just some random old VR with an LS swap now

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Well, this build has been a bit of a journey for me, and it took an unexpected twist on the week end.  Looks like an engine rebuild and power upgrade is going ahead sooner than planned…

Bit of background, so pretty much from day 1, I would describe the engine as “rattly” when cold, once it warmed up it was great, and of course made plenty of power.  I just put it down to clearances, cast iron block etc.  But over the last few weeks, in fact since it came back from the tuner the last time I have been concerned with it getting worse.  And I also have had this niggle in my mind that sure a lot of the black smoke when I boot it is black, ie rich, but it seemed to have a bit of that blue oil tinge to it….

So on the weekend I finished the plumbing of the catch can directly to the two rocker covers, and sadly, almost immediately on fire up I was shocked by how fumie it is even just at idle.  Took it for a drive and it down on power and its definitely burning oil.

So a bit of a cloud of depression set in, then after that settled down I gave IJ a call on there as I wanted to pick the brain of someone familiar with LS engines, but also sort of not biased in anyway.

So seems its leaking past the rings, and can be a bit of a known issue with big stroke LS engines.  So I have made the decision to pull it out and rebuild it before it lets go in a big way.  I actually was/am a little hesitant about rebuilding it myself, but have decided to have a go, and IJ has kindly offered any advice if i get stuck.  I have played around with engines, but never built anything like this before on my own so will be  a bit of a learning curve.  But no guts no glory i guess.

So the plan is whist I am doing that I might as well make more power, so its a head/cam combo, most likely from Higgins, new pistons with valve relief so i can go more cam lift, bump up the compression and refresh everyhting else, and swap the reluctor wheel to do away with the converter box.

$$ is a little tight right now as I have committed so much to the Kombi, but I do want to do it properly.  I have been told and read that internally the parts of LSx454 are actually pretty good.  I am going take IJ’s advice though and moly/ceramic and heat dispersant coat the pistons. Will see what else is worth doing.

Stay tuned….

 

 

 

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

Wow, I know the original LS engines are renowned for heavy breathing but I would not have thought it for a LSx build.

Never mind, bigger and better on the rebuild.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea, at first I was pretty pissed about it, but it is what it is.  As you say wont hurt to make a few more killa wasps.  Not sure what gain heads/cam is worth tbh.  Might push it over the 400 rwkw, time will tell I guess.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

How limited is ur cam selection by the pistons?

I have read the crate 454 didn’t have the greatest of clearances when built. Can you just hone it, new rings and bearings with better clearances and cam and heads?

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by  cava454.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea thats pretty much exactly the plan Cav.  Thats the reason for pulling now before anything lets go badly.  Adam at Precision is a guru LS parts wise, he is looking into whats a good upgrade but he says internals of them are generally pretty stout.  I believe about 600 thou is max lift on current pistons but not totally sure without measuring it.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

So you need pistons? How much lift are you planing? Is it worth the extra $$ for the extra lift?

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

Depending on the pistons that are in there you may be able to just have them fly cut rather than replacing.  Really depends on what you are starting with.

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/lsx-454

Website says forged everything…..

 

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by  Immortality.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by  Immortality.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Bigger cam then I thought also.

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

Good idea about the reluctor wheel

[RennoParticipant Adelaide, SAVN SS | VX SS View build HERE Member since: March 11, 2016 Posts: 119]

Is it time for some boost yet Gary?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Hi all, sorry game of thrones night at my lads last night so no forum action…

Not sure if I need new pistons or not, wont really know until its all apart, with a bit of luck will get it out this week end, not sure if disassembled also.

Not sure about the extra lift Cav, my plan is to talk to Nathan Higgins about a combo of cam/compression/heads for what I want, of course I would like a little extra hp but I don’t want to lose the low down torque and drive-ability.  I would rather not spend big $$ on stuff that’s nice to have but not necessary, but silly not to do anything genuinely needed given its out of the car.  Pretty sure the boys at G Force made close to 1300hp boosted on an unopened LSx454 before it gave up the ghost, so I think its more about getting the clearances right, and making use of the latest coatings like what IJ recommends.

I cant help thinking the first couple of thousand k’s I did with the wrong injectors so pouring anatomized fuel into the cylinders didn’t help, but that’s all behind me now.  Hoping to speak to Higgins later this morning, will keep everyone posted, and please feel free to make any suggestions. This engine rebuild is next level for me, happy to take advice form those in the know.

And lastly, no not time for FI yet, not sure I ever will.  Do this, see what it makes, hopefully run a 10 NA, and die happy…

 

[sands vsParticipant vs commodore View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 619]

Tuff one its bad that it happened with such a dear motor with limited ks.. But at the same time I suppose heads and cam is a good outcome from it.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea sort of agree, its really a relatively inexpensive motor at $11.5k, but I do know what you mean.  As I said I don’t think I did it any favors washing the bores for the first 1000ks or so. Interested to see whats it like when i strip it down.  And at least this way i will know exactly what I have and how its built.

Just got off the phone to Higgins, he said to get it out and apart then call him so I can tell him exactly what the pistons etc are like and we will go from there.

Also contacted Jake Bain as they do top end stuff, and I have got to know him as he did my fuel tank.  He actually said Nathan is the guy to go to for these as he has the runs on the board.  Says a lot about Jake though that he is honest enough to recommend a competitor, gotta respect that…

 

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Higgins will sort you. But you need a HP goal first.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

If it’s only stuffed rings because they didn’t bed in properly a quick hone and new decent quality rings should solve the problem and be relatively cheap.

I believe the LS7 style heads used on the LSx454 are also decent so a bit of a touch up, sort out the CR and a bit more cam to wake it up and your laughing hopefully without having to spend a fortune.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

 

Immortality wrote:

If it’s only stuffed rings because they didn’t bed in properly a quick hone and new decent quality rings should solve the problem and be relatively cheap. I believe the LS7 style heads used on the LSx454 are also decent so a bit of a touch up, sort out the CR and a bit more cam to wake it up and your laughing hopefully without having to spend a fortune.

^yea thats what i am thinking too.

 

This is interesting, this is a comparison of the LSx454 (top) and LSx454R (bottom).  Looks like actually the internals are pretty much same, so obviously can they handle the power.  Interesting bore/stroke are actually identical.

The only differences I can see are solid cam, heads (valve sizes as well), compression and roller rockers.  I understand its a tall deck to keep the piston in the bore at bdc, which I think isn’t a power adder, so maybe sort of shows with mine, if I do the heads, cam etc I can make some good numbers?

View post on imgur.com

• This reply was modified 7 years, 2 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

I’d just do heads cam and and a nice hyd roller. Or if you wanna step it up a solid roller.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

Solid roller is a lot more maintenance and costs and not really that street friendly.

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