VR Senator with LSx454

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea I know, sometimes I start to think, man I wish I had just gone a regular injection set up like a Fast or whatever, then I stop and look at it all nice and purdy and go “yea nah”, reckon I will try and make this work

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Just cable tie one hose to top of trumpet facing in and the other just drill and tap and spot for it 

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

VRSenator065 wrote:

Yea I know, sometimes I start to think, man I wish I had just gone a regular injection set up like a Fast or whatever, then I stop and look at it all nice and purdy and go “yea nah”, reckon I will try and make this work

 

I know what you mean, I started out doing a simple manifold swap, now I’m fitting bloody braided hoses everywhere.  Where does it stop?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Stephen Bell popped up today to play around with the tune a little for light throttle, cold start etc. Now also have the tb’s perfectly synchronized, starts and idles like a boss. Did a bit of a vroom vroom video will post up as well shortly. We think we are really getting our heads around what it needs, its not a straight forward tune with so many cubes, the 8ITB set up, and also that I want it nice and driveable in all conditions. We are really getting there though. And I do like the sound of it when its having a bit of a rev

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyJ-ExEe9oc&feature=youtu.be

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Well I can honestly say I have been for the best drive ever in it. The tune is just getting better and better. Its becoming everything I wanted. You can just cruise along casually at say 80, you wouldn’t even know its a V8 let alone 454 cubes. Seriously is just drives like any other car. Then hit the loud pedal and all hell breaks loose. Just fantastic, I cant stop smiling. Anyone in Adelaide looking for a good tuner, especially if its a bit out of the ordinary, I couldn’t recommend Bells Auto more. Living the dream!!

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

looking fine Gary , I know what you mean about the smile and grin

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Cheers mate, the light throttle tune was starting to annoy me.  At first I was like the occasional pop and crackle through the exhaust was cool, but it wore thin very quickly.  On that cruise I took the misses, she couldn’t believe how smooth and tame it was.  Pretty much exactly how I want it.

Its still not 100% perfect, but the day we spent and the gains has pointed him in the right direction.  Once I have done the car display at the show and shine I will get it down to him so he can put it on the rollers with his full gas analyzer etc and get it mint.  The plan is to bring it up to a steady 2,000 rpm and tune it perfect, then a steady 3,000 etc.  After that i reckon we should have it nailed.

But for now one very happy camper

[sands vsParticipant vs commodore View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 619]

The low throttle stuff is the thing that so many forget. People get so caught up on full throttle and power runs. But this is the stuff that makes it so much nicer to drive.  What was the problem in the tune in the first place?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Tbh, what he has changed in the tune I don’t fully understand.  I get AFR and timing, but  when they start talking about open or closed loop and short of long tune etc I get a bit lost.  All I know is its much better.

I am actually going to design up a 3D print a gizmo that will attach to the throttle bar on the ITB’s with a thumb screw so we can adjust it to 2,000 rpm and it will stay there, then 3,000 etc, so on the dyno he can play around with it at a constant rpm

From what I have seen anyone can tune for WOT, but mid range on a streeter is a different story…

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Gizmo is going to go here (just for tuning/dyno);

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Getting everything ready for the display at Peter Page on the week end, thought i would treat it to a full detail with Bonez detailing who has done it for me one before.  Just a couple of progress pics starting to get its shine on;

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

VRSenator065 wrote:

Tbh, what he has changed in the tune I don’t fully understand. I get AFR and timing, but when they start talking about open or closed loop and short of long tune etc I get a bit lost. All I know is its much better. I am actually going to design up a 3D print a gizmo that will attach to the throttle bar on the ITB’s with a thumb screw so we can adjust it to 2,000 rpm and it will stay there, then 3,000 etc, so on the dyno he can play around with it at a constant rpm From what I have seen anyone can tune for WOT, but mid range on a streeter is a different story…

 

It’s fairly simple once you get your head around a few of the terms.

Open loop – the pcm uses the data stored in the tables to sort the fuelling (normally during cold start and WOT).

Closed loop – the PCM used the O2 sensors in the exhaust to adjust the fuelling to achieve the stoichiometric AFR ratio (14.7:1).

 

Short and long fuel trim(s) term refers to the adjustments the PCM is making in closed loop mode.  Short term fuel trim adjustments are the actual adjustments the PCM is making at the time, long term fuel trim numbers are what is stored going back over a much longer term.  IF the tune is good than the long term and short term numbers will be fairly small as the tune is close to been spot on and it is making adjustments to suit local weather conditions (such as temp and barometric conditions etc)only.  If the tune is off then the PCM will make small adjustments at a time until it achieves it’s AFR targets but this can take some time and there are also limits to how far it can adjust things.

 

Getting a tune spot on in the cruise areas can take a fair bit of time and is best done by logging the car when it’s been driven and then adjusting to suit.  Once all the tables are done, then the adjustments for cold start, throttle enrichment etc can be dialled in properly.  On a car like yours with a fairly unique setup this can be very time consuming where as your average run of the mill cammed/stroked LS1/2/3 etc the factory tables are fairly good once the base tables have been sorted.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Thanks so much for that, I actually think that makes a lot of sense and correlates exactly with what Stephen was saying on the day but honestly I wasn’t really keeping up with it.  I really appreciate it, helps with my body of knowledge.

He has said quite a few times that its very time consuming doing what I am after, its not necessarily hard, just time.  In the old days who would have even thought it possible to reach in and turn the key through the window and start something making 600hp with no throttle.  It was tune for WOT, lots of power and noise, and making sure it didn’t lean out and detonate, if it idled under 1,500 rpm it was bonus.  Nowadays the control the tuner has is simply amazing.  I guess like all things though, the more you have, the more you expect.

Yesterday I drove it out to the detailers at Williamstown, so maybe a 1/2 drive in the hills.  Its a totally different car to drive now at light throttle, almost boring.  Its still not finished but we are much much closer to where I want it to be.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

Yeah the modern efi systems can cover a lot more stuff, especially the factory type PCM’s which need to be able to handle all facets of driving from cold start to overheated and everything in between without trouble.  That is where many of the aftermarket ECU’s fail as they are mainly aimed at the performance market and cold start/idle isn’t really important or something they care about as long as it makes good numbers at WOT.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I reckon the old girl scrubs up alright

[HDN05LParticipant Canberra ACTVS Olympic Edt 383 stroker Ute View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 289]

I just want one!

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Gotta say pretty impressed with his work, but also feel like the cars finally about where I was hoping it would be.  Just need to do the final tweaks on the tune and I reckon its good to go for some great summer cruising

 

[MarzellaParticipant MarzellaVS SS View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 59]

VRSenator065 wrote:

Gotta say pretty impressed with his work, but also feel like the cars finally about where I was hoping it would be. Just need to do the final tweaks on the tune and I reckon its good to go for some great summer racing now that AIR is back open and drags are back on in SA!!! 

edited your comment…. 

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Lol, yep want to do that too, just not sure what it would run right now.  Part of me wants to run it as it is to see where its standing as is, other part thinks I should wait until its got a good number in it.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

600hp should run 125mph

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