VR Senator with LSx454

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Got a few more things done, best part is the fuel pumps quiet!!!  Decided to hook up the controller, its has a pot to adjusts the flow, and switch that bypasses it.  Made up a nice bracket to mount them, wired it all up, set the flow to maximum, and it started as per normal.  Just adjusted the flow down a tiny amount, not even a quarter of a turn maybe 90% and the pump just went silent, flick the switch and instant full noise.  Looks like its noisy when its running flat out, but just back it off a little and its really quiet.  So I set pulled down the middle of the back seat and fed the controller through so it was by me, went for a drive with my son watching the fuel pressure gauge,  gave it a bit, didn’t budge a mm, and was quiet as a mouse.  Bloody happy with that.  Will run it like that until it gets its full tune, it may be we don’t need to hook it up to the ECU at all.  For now I have mounted it up high out of the way in the boot, and also wrapped tape around it so there is no chance of the knob moving.

Got the new Whiteline bar in, used Pedders adjustable attachment arms, fitted up perfect,   Looks closer to the strut bottom than it is, so that’s another job completely sorted.

Also played around with the ECU, decided the best place for it is in the glove box, fits there easy.  So cut a hole at the back, fed the loom through and reconnected it.  Also mounted the diagnostic port to the inside of the side so its a bit more robust.  Not stressed about losing most of the glove box, just makes it so much neater around the passengers feet.

Lastly learnt a lesson the hard way.  When playing around with braided power steering lines that run down close to the alternator, make sure the battery is disconnected.  Was fitting it all up and it touched the alternator terminal and sparked.  Wasn’t much so didn’t think much of it.  Got it all plumbed up, working fine, took my misses for her first squirt around the block in it, its so docile at normal throttle, lit it up a little at one point should have seen the smile on her face, she said wow that’s ridiculous :)  Anyhow got home, pull into the driveway and oil starts pissing everywhere under the car, the spark must have burnt a small hole in the Teflon hose under load it burst.  Luckily I guess it was at home, so have swapped back to the original lines, this time I isolated the battery ha ha.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Took a couple of happy snaps with my iPhone during the shoot, here’s a couple of teasers. Was a lot of fun

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Just checked the power with a multi-meter, definitely sending 12V to each wire with the aerial up/down switches so I think maybe the aerials stuffed.

Couple of pics of the brake bias mount, crappy iPhone pics unfortunately, think its nice and neat and easy to get too.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Back home safe and sound in the bat cave

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Just made a lazy 460HP at the wheels first pull, they are having a bit of trouble strapping it down to the rollers, Martin seems to think taking into account converter and tire slip, well over 600 at flywheel.  Had to leave him, now he earns his money tweaking it.  Couple of crappy iPhone vids, sounds so nice, like a V8 Supercar

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

VRSenator065 wrote:

so whats happening now??

OK, so bit of an update.  So the lift pump originally supplied definitely isn’t correct.  It needs to be medium flow, low pressure, more of a carby style pump than EFI.  The pump I had was high flow and high pressure, basically an EFI pump. Unfortunately the second Holley one Earls have given me is bloody enormous physically, and 3 times the flow rate I want as its designed as a main feed pump, its just not the one for me.

Soooooo, trying to find a nice compact external E85 fully compatible pump of about 200 Lph (50 gph), at 3 or 4 psi is actually way more difficult than I thought.  Seems not too many of the big guys have cottoned onto the E85 band wagon yet, and those that have have done so for the main supply pump, which is either too high in pressure as its EFI or is way too high in flow rate as its designed as the main pump to feed big HP carby engines.

But I have managed to locate a Pierburg pump, they are German and used in many OE applications, may even be whats used in my 911, so I am guessing they are good quality.  Only issue is they are only available in 100 lph which is about half the flow that I want.  So I have dug around, spoken to a few people and decided to try and mount two side by side.  Now I know I have rattled on about how I don’t like dual pumps, and that’s true for the main feed pump.  But actually for the lift pump, which is just basically keeping the surge topped up, its probably a bit of an advantage.  The reason being if there is a problem with one I will still keep driving as the other will easily keep up with topping up the surge at regular demand.  In fact a single 100lph would do for most times except circuit anyway.

They are barb fitting, but since the pressure is only 5psi max, that will be fine, I think I will plumb it up using simple tees and hose to get it all running and tested, then later maybe silver solder up some nice dedicated pipe work once its all sorted and running fine.  At least the car will be back up and running

So I have booked in for another go at the engineering testing Friday week which is the Anzac day public holiday so I don’t need time off work which is good.  Have to try and sort out a car trailer for the day that easy drive on/off, the one I got previously whilst I could sort of have made it work was going to be a bitch to get the car off as it was so high, now I have some time I will see whats available to hire thats better for low cars.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Seems like forever since I had a nice fun day under the car working on it.  Just spent a great week on a houseboat up the river, caught a few fish and sank a few bottles of red, but have been itching to get back onto the Senator.

So have mounted the dual lift pumps, pretty happy with how they sit, hard to get a great pic, but tomorrow should get them wired in, then its a bit of an electrical test then hit the starter.  Looking to do the engineering tests next Friday all things being equal.  Might even get to go for quick a squirt tomorrow

Couple of random pics for the hell of it;

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Bit of stuffing around to get the pumps wired up.  Turns out the battery had dropped voltage a little, after I left it on charge I got everything wired up nicely and tested perfect.  Disconnected the feed line to the surge and ran the pumps, great even flow. much quieter (I guess unsurprisingly) than the Holley.

Took it for a drive, just so much fun to drive, I never ever get tired of driving it .  I can’t get over how relatively sedate it is at normal cruise speed.  At slow speed just squeeze the throttle and both light up instantly, I did try one run from a start, and it stalled up immediately and pulled like a train.  Bit more testing to go to get it all driving off the line as fast as possible, but so far really happy.

Got underneath to check everything as its done a few km’s now, all looks good, obviously exhaust has lost its shine, and it really could do with a pressure wash when I feel keen.  Took a few pics for giggles, might drive it again once or twice but should be good for testing next Friday.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Well, enough of the Kombi.  Truth is I have had some issues since the initial tune with the Senator.   So the new tuner has had it together with the boys at a highly recommended old school Dyno centre for the last two weeks.   They went through it quite painstakingly.   Turns out there were quite a few cumulative issues that they sorted.

The throttle bodies were re- synchronised.  As it was the linkages weren’t tight.  So unfortunately as I drove it around they were vibrating and changing, in fact in the process it flogged out one of the ball joints.  Because of this basically the final tune was based on a flawed ITB set up.  It took the boys quite a while to fiddle and adjust them, you need to know what you’re doing.  It’s not just left and right bank, but then each individual TB to each other, then rinse and repeat.  If you look at the early videos of the engine idling you will notice it spit back though a couple of cylinders, it doesn’t do this now. TB synchronization doesn’t have much of an effect at wide open throttle, but makes a huge difference to low down and general driveability.

The way the map sensor was plumbed was a big problem.  As the car was they showed me the map trace, it was bouncing around at idle violently, they more or less couldn’t tune it for idle.  Although ti sounded tough, at the time I did wonder a little why it was so lumpy with such a baby cam.  When they looked the map sensor was plumbed, it had been spliced into only one of the throttle bodies runners.  That means the pressure was jumping wildly at idle as it was only reading one runner every cycle.  So they removed the intake manifold, and joined opposing runners vacuum lines, then took each of those 4 back to the manifold.  The map sensor then reads off the end of the manifold.  That smoothed out the map trace and basically solved the problem.

The transmission ECU parameters were readjusted.  That involved setting the shift points, the shift delay etc.  They have then run t up and down on the dyno at varying speeds and loads to tweak the gear changes.  Final step in that is a road test, for that final 1%. All things being equal that will solve my trans issue for now.

They especially concentrated on mid to light throttle tune. As a genuine road car it’s not only important to work on wot max hp/torque but as important (maybe more) to work on those through the rev range.  Right now as it sits it’s really a baby cam, so it really should be nice and easy to drive, as much as a 700hp car can be

So after all that they rang me very happy with the improvements they have made to the car.  I think the results speak for themselves.   It has now made a much more respectable 378kW, (507 HP) at the wheels, that converts to around 522 kW (700 HP) at the crank.  Not bad for a nice lazy baby cam, and to be perfectly honest, much more like the numbers I was expecting given the ITB set up and the way I have done everything else.  Also comparing it to what others have made with the crate LSx454, as its generally accepted GM are quite conservative in their power estimation.  All’s well that ends well, good times ahead

Photobucket isn’t playing ball right now, will load up a dyno sheet pic later.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Well have to say yesterday I lived a bit of a dream ha ha.  Spent the day with a pro photographer doing a photo shoot for a feature in Street Machine.  I reckon for me anyways, that’s about as good as it gets for a car I more or less screwed together in my shed at home.  Just was absolutely awesome, felt a bit like a celebrity.  Took a couple of happy snaps while it was on, I am not allowed to see or show any of the pics until after its published, and that may not be for a couple of months yet. I thought to be approached by SC was bloody awesome on its own, but to get in SM just brilliant

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea drove it again today and then went over it again on the hoist I think your right.  I am sure they are great for what they are designed for ie racing, but there has to be some sort of give somewhere.  I will swap them at some stage just to try.

Gave it a a good wash today, I guess you could say he got it pretty straight

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Had a bit of fun working on it today.  Decided I better start going through everything from a roadworthy sense.  I haven’t been happy with the front lights, there’s been something a little bit dodgy/intermittent. Turns out the reason the headlights were so poor is they actually weren’t hooked up correctly.   Anyhow, decided it was easier to remove the bumper, get it up on the hoist and do it properly.  Bought some nice high intensity globes and fitted them.  Also gives me a chance to show how I mounted the washer bottle and brake vacuum tank.  Also discovered I forgot to refit the horn, nfa where that is in the shed so looks like a trip to UPI tomorrow to grab one, everything else works perfect for rego.  I think tomorrow I may have a stab at setting the front headlight height etc, no idea how easy/hard that will be.  few pics;

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yippidy bloody doo da, so bloody happy.  Have been chasing the source of the drive line harshness for what seems like ages.  Been under the car so many times, just couldn’t work it out.  Anyhow, today spent a great day and pulled the exhaust collectors off as I wanted to make a positive retainer for the passenger side.  Whilst I was there thought I would try a rubber trans mount.  Removed the Tuff Mount, thought that feels weird, pulled it out BINGO.  Stupid me had used bolts that were too long.  With a regular trans mount it doesn’t matter, as the bolts are up in fresh air in the middle of the mount, but with the Tuff Mount they cant be any deeper than the flange. Otherwise they drive against the other side and lock it up.  You can see on the mount where the bolts have been fouling.  Took it for a squirt, smooth as a gravy sandwich baby lol.

So main job was to get the collectors right, as I think I have had an air leak before the cat and O2 sensor.  You can see here where the collector has worked back.

So I made up a mild steel tab, and welded it to the headers.

Then made up a mating part on the collector, this picture with the paint makes the welds look ratshit, trust me it looks way worse then it is, actually I was really happy with it.

So that essentially locks the passengers side like they come from pacemaker as one piece.  I also cleaned all the joins thoroughly, fitted all new exhaust gaskets and also bought some M10x1.25 fine pitch flanged bolts and nuts for it, the ones that come from Di Phillipo were pretty average, coarse pitch bla bla.

Only headache was my header to cylinder head gaskets are unique to the LS7 heads.  And the gaskets I had I half wrecked pulling them out.  On the passenger side I ended up very carefully cleaning them back to the backing plate and used high temp gasket sealant.  Looks like it worked perfectly, I think tomorrow I will do the drivers as I didnt do that side like that and I can hear a slight hiss.  Will order some more gaskets from the US during the week.  Might even buy a top end overall set just so I have them hear if they are ever needed.

Then also bought a lovely tailored car cover for it, they were doing a bit of a deal on the Qld HSV fb page which I am on, fits perfectly, beautifully made, should keep it in A1 condition.

Took it for a spin (literally) before putting it away, running sweet as, just loev the power delivery, tomorrow going to hopefully do the brake vacuum pump, and fix the drivers header gasket.  Loving it

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Well gotta say right feel like I am living the dream with the car.  Seriously would not change one thing on it, just a total blast working on like today, then taking out for a quick shake down spin afterwards, bloody heaven!!

So finished off the brake vacuum pump, I think that’s one job totally nailed.  I ended up having a bit of a brain wave, no doubt some brake guru will say its the way to go and been done before but I hadn’t read about it before.  What I have done is left the vacuum from the motor tee’d into the vacuum pump line as before.  What I had to do was fit a second non return valve to it through.  That way the main vacuum is provided buy the engine like before, and so all the electric pump is doing is topping it up.  Its way better than using the pump alone, it hardly comes on, is also fail safe.  I also fitted a neat switch hidden down on the right hand side so I can override it if I want to.  The brake s now are just perfect, really really happy.  Also bought some different cable sheath and neatened it all up so it looks as factory as possible.  I am pretty happy with the wiring, to me it looks neat anyways.

Also installment #2 of “learn to do everything myself so I don’t have get raped by people charging me obscene amounts of money” went well.  I have bought an air flow gauge, and been speaking with Mike Jenvey in the UK about how to synchronize the throttle bodies.  So today I spent an hour or so, doing what he suggested, its not particularly difficult, but there is a definate process involved.  Now I think they are spot on.  The car now idles at less than 800 rpm happily.  So I think that’s one job I have at least started to get a handle on doing myself.  At some stage I have to plug in my laptop the OBD port and at least start to look at what the hell all that means

Lastly I have been prattling on a bit about the throttle response of the ITB’s.  So I have attempted to take a video.  Bear in mind this is on a private road, by myself, with one hand firmly on the steering wheel but the other trying to hold the phone as well.  The fuel pumps are not that noisy to the human ear, its must be some weird ass phone microphone thing going on.  Video one was a trial, I didn’t go anywhere near flat, the second one I let it rip a bit more, I will let it speak for itself lol.  (volume up)

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Just tinkering really, maybe I move the radiator back and then this goes over the top and draws air form in front.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Well one custom designed pair of air filters fitted up :)  These were made for me to my sizes by UniFilter.  These are what I plan to use in the interim for road use.  It also provides a better spot for the IAT sensor and a clean side bleed point for the crankcase vent.  Took a bit of working through to make it all work.

I had to design up some 10mm spacer blocks to bring the backing plate out enough to clear the intake runners. I just don’t seem to be able to take a nice shot of the bay, it doesn’t look anywhere near as busy in real life, but what the heck I guess.  I actually quite like them, obviously not as horn as the bare trumpets, but more practical for the street.

I have also gone back and refitted the Tuff Mounts.  Unfortunately its drizzling with rain here, no way I am taking it out in that, I think its forecast tomorrow as well but maybe there will be a dry spell and I can take it for a fang

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Woo bloody hoo! The Senator just sailed through the engineering tests at Goolwa aerodrome with flying colours. The engineer at the end no bs said, quote “Gary, that is superbly built car”  Went down with a mate, he took a heap of pics, was a very very interesting day.  Just enjoying a celebratory drink with the misses.  Tomorrow if I get a chance i will do a bit more of a description of the day.  The car performed flawlessly.  Only problem is its a tad too loud, which I sort of thought might be the case, but i have a plan with that.  Peaking!!!

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

So a bit of a write up on what happened yesterday, and where I am up to.

So as i say the car is “approved in principal”. At least here in SA the engineering is a two stage process. The first (and hardest & most important) stage is to prove to your engineer the car complies with all the ADR’s, and more importantly is safe and well built. In my case due to the amount of changes to the car and the 454 he wanted to do full dynamic testing. This included brake fade tests, lane change/swerve tests, acceleration, drive-ability and noise level. We did this on an aerodrome run way. Depending on how this goes it may need to be done multiple times until everything is right. He then writes an official engineering report supporting all the various modifications and advises that it should be registered. The second and final stage is to take the car to the RTA and they read the report, assess it themselves and officially approve it.

The first stage is what I completed yesterday. It was a very interesting day. It started off by him sitting down and going through with me every single aspect of the car, and he wanted to know if it was standard or modified. If it was modified I had to in detail tell him what I did, why and how. As I have said before, he knows my engineering back ground so I think I had a bit of an advantage as firstly I was able to tell him in engineering terms what I did, but I also I think there was a trust level there that he was confident in what I had done. For the report I need to put together a package of photos of each part of the car I have modified.

After we finished that we drove out onto the runway which was closed to air traffic for the duration of the tests. First thing I didn’t realize was he does all the driving. I had to stand on the side of the runway just looking. At first that was a bit weird, but it was actually great watching and seeing it cruising past at full noise. He put a data logger inside the car with accelerometers etc, he also had a sensor on the brake pedal so he could measure how much force he had to apply. He then accelerated and braked 15 times one after another. He then measured the brake disc temperature on all four wheels to assess brake fade. That all went perfectly. He then did an emergency full stop, my guess was from at least 110 km/h . The car stopped dead straight with the ABS doing its thing perfectly. He told me he was extremely happy with the brakes.

After that he did a heap of driving, turning, accelerating etc, I assume he was checking for drive-ability, and knocks clunks or bangs. Last thing was a lane change swerve test. There are three sets of cones, he drives up and swerves across through the second set, then immediately back to the set in the first lane. He starts at 60 km/h, then moves up until he thinks he has hit the limit. He has a helmet on, and its pretty spectacular to watch. With mine the last one he did was at 110, he came up to me and said well you cant do better than that.

Last thing was the noise test, which it failed. I sort of knew it would. I have a Varex muffler I bought off VS_Manta, I spoke to Doug about using it, and he liked the idea. So I am going to fit that. Its something I want anyway, to have the ability to quieten it down if I get pulled over, or near home or whatever.

So all in all, a great day.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

So got the pics of my mate form the test day, thought I would throw a few up for interests sake.

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