VR Senator with LSx454

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Cars all covered up and put to bed, got some people from Canada staying with us for a couple of days, so may not get a chance to take a pic of the actual purge solenoid for a couple of days

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

Just behind the Tensioner.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Just quickly went out there, its made its way down behind the back of the manifold.  Will have to wait until I have it apart for some reason to take a pic.  This is during the build, when I ran the vac line from the cannister across, and the connector in the loom.  Don’t seem to be able to find one with it finished though.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

^interesting you didn’t do the up and over loop of number 6 pipe like CRE etc seem to.  I assume its not technically same length but a compromise for room?

• This reply was modified 8 years, 12 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

On the Headers?

For mine it was a case of whatever I could get to fit, wasn’t too fussed about tuned lengths as it’s so overpowered anyway 

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

That looks like a much better design anyways.

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

The Purge is on the right head just behind and above the tensioner Cav, has the 90 degree hose end going into it, Same on VY/Z..

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Anonymous wrote:

The Purge is on the right head just behind and above the tensioner Cav, has the 90 degree hose end going into it, Same on VY/Z..

yeah seen that lol the LSA has the valve on it  helps if I research before I ask sometimes lol

i was talking about ur pipes.

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

cava454 wrote:

IJ. wrote:

The Purge is on the right head just behind and above the tensioner Cav, has the 90 degree hose end going into it, Same on VY/Z..

yeah seen that lol the LSA has the valve on it helps if I research before I ask sometimes lol i was talking about ur pipes.

Cool, thought you’d seen them already, was about the only way I could get them all to fit and still be able to work on it if needed.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Anonymous wrote:

The Purge is on the right head just behind and above the tensioner Cav, has the 90 degree hose end going into it, Same on VY/Z..

My loom was off a Statesman with an LS1, the purge solenoid connector is off the firewall and fairly short.  I used the VZ purge solenoid only coz I have a VZ ECU, and really didn’t know if there were any differences and my engineer preferred if I kept stuff to as few models as possible.  CRE loop #6 over and back down at the rear, no idea why, I assume for more steering clearance, and I thought length?.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

And I agree tuned length being way overrated, particularly for a streeter that’s operating over such a broad rev range.

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

Yep guessing it’s done for steering clearance, I spoke with Darren at Difilipos about lengths when I was building mine, he said longer primaries would be better than shorter if you had to make the choice and I agree with a car that needs to operate with a wide powerband “Tuned Length” is very low on the list..

I was running 1-3/4 primaries on this engine when it was in the Tonner and while it made great power it always felt a little strangled, this time I bumped it to 1-7/8 and with a less restrictive exhaust it’s wakened it up some!

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Anonymous wrote:

Yep guessing it’s done for steering clearance, I spoke with Darren at Difilipos about lengths when I was building mine, he said longer primaries would be better than shorter if you had to make the choice and I agree with a car that needs to operate with a wide powerband “Tuned Length” is very low on the list.. I was running 1-3/4 primaries on this engine when it was in the Tonner and while it made great power it always felt a little strangled, this time I bumped it to 1-7/8 and with a less restrictive exhaust it’s wakened it up some!

Exactly. People are telling me to just run the 3/4 they are plenty. But even with my mates v7 355 the 7/8 made a massive gain on it. Generally find going bigger headers means you will loose 1-2lb boost as it’s less restriction.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Mine made 508 rwhp (on E85 though) with 1 3/4″ Tri Y Pacemakers (with some match porting), so they can make healthy power and it made 480 rwhp with 1 7/8″ 4 into 1’s (on pump 98)  and a safe tune (not same dyno though).  I can’t feel any marked difference though, so tbh, I am not sure there’s masses in it.  But again like everything its not one single thing, its how it all works together, cam/compression/NA vs Boost/max RPM etc etc.  So your mates boosted 355 as a package obviously really responded well to the change, but someone elses may not.  As I say I really think exhaust performance generally is very overrated on a streeter, where it has to operate over a wide range of conditions.  Having said that I do think if/when I do cam and heads on mine, is when I would have seen a difference though, pretty sure the Paccies would have run out of puff.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Yeah mates v7 was pushing 750HP. Running 9’s

Dont forget blown is pushing a hell of a lot more air then NA. E85 adds some more also.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Surely that’s not right?  A car making 750hp NA vs 750hp Blown?  Wouldn’t the gas out of the exhaust essentially the same for both, in fact basically the amount of air/fuel in is too, otherwise how are they both making the same power?  A blower is just an air pump, its just a way to get air in the cylinder, too much is made of them, they don’t alter physics.  At the end of the day there is a certain amount of air/fuel charge in the cylinder when the spark plug fires and it goes bang, it doesn’t care or know how it got there .  E85 def adds a little, not so much for NA, its basically just the octane benefit, forced is different, as its more forgiving timing wise.  At least that’s how I understand it.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

You have more compressed air with boost. Better VE %

E85 uses more air vs fuel so increase.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

An engine is really just a big air pump.

You use a lot more E85 compared to petrol so that would have some effect possibly on what comes out the back but I think Gary is right that it takes X amount of air/fuel to make Y amount of power.  How you get that into the cylinder doesn’t really matter.  The engine also doesn’t know how big it is so VE% doesn’t really mean anything other than how efficient it is from user point of view.

I think the bigger difference is what effect the exhaust has on the different style of engine.  A well designed exhaust system on a N/A engine helps evacuate the cylinder and create suction to help get more air in (VE above 100%), with a blown engine exhaust tuning isn’t really required as something else is taking care of getting the air in so you can go bigger on the exhaust to reduce back pressure.

You might actually find that a blown engine is less efficient in a way because the engine is working harder to push the exhaust out, also known as pumping losses.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 12 months ago by  Immortality.

[MarzellaParticipant MarzellaVS SS View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 59]

Cavs right… Bigger the better on blown cars.

And of course you can make the same power on different amounts of fuel it all comes down to bsfc.

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

I think there is way way more to this then anyone can post on here in less then 3 pages

 

for starters I disagree with blower engines exhaust not having scavenging affects, Infact I think they have a big scavanging effect, on a top fuller (yes I know it’s not a street car blah blah yes it’s different) when they drop a cyilendar the engines sees a rise of 2-3psi due to the scavenging effect been lost on that 1 cyilendar alone

 

 

to put 2-3 psi into 7 cyilendars at 8500rpm that are already at something like 50psi requires massive amounts of air and that is from the loss of  scavenging  on 1 cyilendar alone

 

A turbo engine I will 100% agree there is pressure on pushing the exhaust out, probley big pressure to

 

Secondly I would think the static compression difference  in engines from N/A to boost would make a difference a N/A 12:1 comp engine must make different HP-cfm to a 8:1 comp boosted engine, I have no idea how the dynamic compression with each engine works out while running though and again I could and probley am completely wrong

 

and with all that I could find on extractor sizes it is not about the HP, can push 1000hp through 1 3/4 pipes if you want, what it does have a big affect on is where your torque range is, because I have a high torque range in the 4000+rpm range is why I went for 2 inch pipes and it worked out great for me with very good results, I’m not positive 2 inch pipes on Cavas stock LSA engine with a very low torque range is a good idea though, 1 7/8 is certinly a great choice as its tryed and tested, if he built it to have torque at 3500-4000rpm then the bigger 2 inch pipes would probley most certainly be a better choice

 

 

his bigger CI is why 1 7/8 is the go, if it was 304CI with a 2000-2700rpm peak torque I would probley think 1 3/4 would be a better choice

 

 

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