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This topic contains 2,102 replies, has 82 voices, and was last updated by 
VRSenator065 3 years, 7 months ago.
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VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777
Note; I started this build and a thread on another forum, that ran to over 100 pages and over 345,000 views. Unfortunately the forum is not being supported by the owners and is likely to soon die. So I have moved what I could across here, unfortunately only my own posts so if things appear disjointed that’s why.
This is the link to the old thread; http://forum.streetcommodores.com.au/showthread.php?t=8573412
This is the link to the Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/vrsenator065
Thought it time to start a thread on my build. I have owned a 93, VR 185i Senator, build #065 for almost 15 years. I am the third owner, it used to be my daily drive but i took it off the road about 6 years ago and I have had it stored waiting to one day build it into what I want.
The plan is to create an updated version of a VR Senator. Plan was an LS3 conversion, tricked 4L65e, maybe Harrop diff, bilstein suspension, and upgraded brakes. The exterior stock looking with show quality paint, interior stock HSV grey/purple velour.
I want to do the engine transplant with the engine stock, get it all in and working, registered, car painted and interior freshened, enjoy it for a while then pull it out and stroke and cam it and go a little wild.
So far I have the LS3, 3 piece case 4l65e, Pacemaker headers, CRS starter swap and mount kit. I want to do as much as possible myself, will post pics as I go along.
Below is how she was a few years back
edit, the build has evolved from the above below is what I have done so far and whats left.
Make/Model: 1993 HSV VR Senator, Build #065
Body: Original Anthracite & silver highlights, 7 month bare metal respray
Interior: Original restored HSV, original HSV steering wheel, original cassette radio, new carpet, all new seals and rubbers. Auto Meter Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure, Volt gauges.
Rims: Rear :custom 5 spoke 17 x 10 rims to match HSV fronts, Front : original 17 x 8
Engine: LSx454 iron block crate motor, CRE 1 7/8″ 4 into 1 headers, B&M engine oil cooler system, PWR radiator, Canton racing sump (#15-276), Tuff Mounts, CRS starter swap kit, Mezierre electric water pump, Remote oil filter (#HP5001), custom remote oil line adapter, modified front K member, relocated Accel coil packs to back of block, Edelbrock split front timing case, TSI 399756 – Heavy-Duty 8 Bolt Flexplate, Accel ceramic angled plug leads
Induction: Jenvey 60mm 8 ITB fuel injection, Injector Dynamics ID1000 injectors.
Fuel: Bain Racing custom alloy tank with 3L inbuilt surge, main pump Weldon DB2015 pump system with PWM controller, lift pump Holley in-line billet, 5/8″ supply & 1/2″ return lines, bay mounted pressure regulator, Pierburg duel lift pumps.
Transmission: Powerglide, Reid case, Aftermarket gear set, 1400hp input shaft, Pro ratchet shifter, dropbox (Ryan, 0409 958 227)
Brakes: Wilwood GTO, 6 piston front, 4 piston rear, relocated ABS, stainless hard lines. Drilled/slotted rotors, VT style hand brake conversion
Suspension: XYZ coil overs, All new SuperPro bushes, everything stripped powder coated & rebuilt
Differential: Harrop 12 Bolt, 3.55:1, Detroit locker, heavily reinforced rear sub frame, G Force Level 3 drive shafts
Tail Shaft: Custom 2 piece, Chrome moly tube, Strange Yokes, HD centre mount (Hardy Spicer)
Exhaust: Owner built custom SS twin 3″ stainless with high flow cats, Di Phillipo mufflers to twin 3″ tips, CRE (CH-80A) 4 into 1, 1 7/8″ into 3″ primary ceramic coated headers
Other : Taylor battery relocation to boot kit; Auto Meter fuel pressure / voltage / oil pressure in spot under cassette; Windscreen washer remotely mounted up under passenger side guard
ECU / Wiring : VY LS1 ECU, modified stock engine loomFuture Mods: Cylinder head work, more aggressive cam.
This is how she is sitting now
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This topic was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by VRSenator065.
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This topic was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by VRSenator065.
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This topic was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by VRSenator065.
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This topic was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by VRSenator065.
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This topic was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by VRSenator065.
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This topic was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
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This topic was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Out with the old
First fit of the new
Trial fit of the headers
CRS starter side conversion and engine mount kit, gear reduction starter not shown
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This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by VRSenator065.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well a little more progress, last night fitted up most of the starter swap kit, actually went togther pretty well. The holes on the adaptor plate that went on the dowels were a bit small so I made a small emery tool and linished them out, after that it went togther sweet.
Then fitted the gear reduction starter, a nice bit of kit. When I tried the extractors there is a lug on the housing of the starter thats not used that came very close to one of the pipes so tonight I cut it off and filed it back neatly to give more clearance, in the next two pics you can see the lug and how close it is to the exhaust.
Tonight fitted the gearbox, went together easily, a tip I found was to cut down two M10 bolts and fit them as guide pins, makes it very easy to offer up the gearbox in line. I them marked the position of the gearbox cut out to clear the starter. I drilled two 10mm holes in eash corner then used s thin blade grinder to cut it out. Actually pretty straight forward. You can just make out where I removed the starter lug.
Then dropped the engine in, went in easy as, actually dropped straight onto the engine mounts. Looks to be about 10-12mm clearance between the sump and cross member. This is using the Castlemain Rod Shop (CRS) mounts.
here it is, certainly fills the engine bay, and looks sweet.
Have fitted the passenger side extractors, they look neat. The drivers side will be a challenge to say the least, but thats for another day…
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Thanks for that Chris, all info helps.
Went and saw the car this morning, coming along great, engine bay is pretty much rubbed back, they are about to start on the body.
Had a good look at the rear wheels with Frank. Turns out there is a wheel/tyre place around the corner from the painter he has used before. So we will roll the lip on the rear guards then take the car around to them and leave it with them. They are then going to put it up on the hoist and test fit rims etc to work out the widest wheel/tyre combo we can fit, then I will know what offset etc to go for. Also if there is any massaging we need to do to fit them we can do it before we go too far with paint. So look like that part may be coming together
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Started on the Auto rebuild today. Spent most of the day making a jig to hold the box, I can then rotate it around as I need to, to work on it. Have had various opinions about attempting the rebuild myself ranging from don’t try it, it cant be done through to why not have a go.
All I want to do is get the car on the road so I can use it and get it registered then I want to get the box done properly by someone like RVO. I am thinking worst case if it all gets too hard I will just take it to a trans place, time will tell.
Over the years I have done basic stuff like repairing or rebuilding a few engines, pulled out diffs etc, but I have never attempted an auto before. Will be interesting to see how I go.
This shows the jig I made today, not sure I would trust my life to my welds, its been a while, but should hold the box ok!!
Managed to get the bell housing off easy enough, I used a small butane torch to warm the bolts, and I had a good quality torx bit. Now its off I will mate it up to the motor and finish off properly the cut out for the starter and probably the blanking plate for the old starter side. I may look at cutting off the old starter bulge off like RW has, not sure.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777On a brighter note, went to the painters today, its progressing really well. We test fitted the new tail light lenses, i bought them off eBay, they weren’t genuine. He was worried the fit might not be any good but actually they weren’t too bad. He fitted each of them and did some massaging with a small slide hammer on the steel panel below them to make the fit perfect, its coming along great. Also front and rear screens are removed as well, he is also going to fill the holes in the boot where the tow bar used to mount, just to finish it off. he has rolled the rear guards, but done great job and also massage the “lip” above them on the inside to give more clearance. So far have to say he is a class act, I get photos sent every couple of days to show progress. Still getting hassled out for doing a “modern” car, stuff em, cant wait to show them once its done, its going to be killa.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777While I am waiting on the trans bits and pieces thought i would fit up the bell housing and finish that off.
This is the rough hole I cut first for the starter side swap, just to get started. Spent a bit of time smoothing it off and cleaning it up to remove any stress raisers. It actually looks much neater in real life than in this pic.
Before
After
On the drivers side, had a close look around and the pipe is quite close to the bell housing. It may not have been a problem since the pipe wouldn’t move around too much there but thought I may as well smooth it off to give a little more clearance while I have the chance.
Again, before
After
At least its another job crossed off the list
All looks sweet now
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well it feels a bit like Xmas again! Received pretty much the last of the trans bits today to be able to start the rebuild. For the record so far I have the following plus a couple of other bits and pieces
· Raybestos 3-4 Clutch MAXPAC
· Transgo .500 Boost Valve
· Transparts 4L60E Transmission Rebuild kit 97-03 Power Pack
· 4L60E Billet 1-2 Super Servo Piston
· 4L60E Super Servo 4th Apply Piston
· Sonnax Strengthened Input Drum Assy
· “The Beast” Sun Gear Shell
· Transgo Shift Kit Stage 2Also got the 2 front wheel back from Extensive Rim Services who refurbished them for me. All i can say is they look awesome, perfect in fact.
below is before and afterAlso have managed to do a deal with a 3D scanning company to do the point cloud for me, counter swapped some work for it, only cost is transporting the rim to Melbourne and back.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Thought I would update for anyone else following the auto rebuild. So after cleaning, checking and measuring all the parts very carefully, I have ordered the last of all the parts. So the complete list of what I am fitting internally as follows.
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[*]Alto wide power band
[*]Sonnax Strengthened Input Drum Assy (inc Stator Support Shaft & billet overrun piston) – part no 77733-05K
[*]Sonnax Wide Sun gear bushing – part no 77010-01
[*]OE reverse Drum
[*]High performance front spragg & new OEM rear
[*]Sonnax Replacement TCC Valve part no – 77754-03K (valve body now reamed & fitted)
[*]Early style hydraulic Output Shaft, cryogenically treated
[*]Full bushing kit
[*]Raybestos 3-4 Clutch MAXPAC
[*]Transgo Hardened high RPM Pump rings
[*]Sonnax HP Performance Pack – part no HP-4L60E-01
[*]Sonnax 2nd Gear “Super Hold” Servo – part no 77911-03K
[*]Sonnax Super Servo 4th Apply Piston – part no 77767K
[*]3-2 Control Valve Spring – part no 77754-23
[*]Sonnax Smart Shell – part no 77749-02K
[*]Sonnax 2-3 HD shift valve – part no 77754-41
[*]New GM Separator Plate
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well, finally finished and fully assembled
Spent the morning dialling in the servo float for the band, got it spot on as per the instructions at 2.00 mm.
Thought I might as well keep going and just methodically went through, and its complete. Have decided I am going to get it painted satin black to go with all the under body, and going to look around for a nice polished aluminium pan with drain plug as well. Gotta say it was a bloody hard slog, much more difficult than I was expecting but really satisfying. Only problem is now I wont truly know how if performs until its all up and running which is a few months off. here it is finished. Doesnt look that impressive but there are some nice goodies inside it.
Also spoke to a guy at the trans place I bought the OE servo on Friday, he has a 950HP FC drag car running 7s over the 1000′ he imports billet torque converters from the states made by TSI, http://transmission-specialties.com/AboutUs.html They look bloody awesome, and he can make it whatever stall I want, then change it as I go chasing HP. Probably start at around 2500 stall. Again they aren’t cheap but look like the go. Going to do a little more research on that one though..
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well I think i jizzed my pants ha ha, finally colour, not bad just off the gun, so happy so far..
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Great day today, she’s back :) Flat bed brought it over about 10. Got it in the shed, just for giggles have fitted the new rear lights and number plate. Also have put the two refurbed wheels on the right side to see what it will look like. Tomorrow will start to play around with the rear wheels to get a feel for how wide I can go, good times…
Not the best quality photos, was raining today so couldn’t get her out and wash her as well as I would have liked, but looking great.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777OK, have done a bit of measuring and playing with the rear wheels, widths and offsets. Note this is on my car which is a 1993 VR Senator, I have had the guards rolled and also the inner portion above the guard relived a little as well whilst they were preparing it for paint. I am pretty sure they were based on a Berlina, with IRS. Other models etc. may be different.
First thing I did was make up a wheel mock up pattern and clamped to a steel rim I had. I made the external diameter the same as the original Senator wheel which was 650mm, I started off the template at 295mm wide.
I then put the car up, and removed the spring so that I could jack the wheel up and down through its travel from maximum to minimum so I could check clearance.
I then played around and moved the pattern in and out, and checked where it would foul. There are 4 main areas below I looked at.
Interestingly, I had heard, and expected that I would need to relieve the trailing arm as it would here first, it doesn’t, the area it hits first is the inner guard area “B” The shock (C) and rear of the arch (D) are also relatively well clear.
This is area A on the trailing arm
So I set the template and put a 5mm drill bit between the area B and the template, I figured 5mm was about as close as I would want to. I then went around and measured the others,
So the clearances were A=12mm, B = 5mm, C=20mm, D=22mm.
Then having set the inner position I started with the template at 295mm wide. It fouled the outside of the guard, I then trimmed it back and the widest I could get was 285mm.
So the widest tyre I can currently fit = 285mm
I then measured the offset on the steel rim, which as I understand it is the full rim width / 2 less the distance from the edge to the hub mount face. That worked out to be 45mm. Tbh I have no idea what model Commodore this wheel is off. I then measured the template relative to the steel wheel. I then laid it out on paper, the calculations are below,
I would have done it a bit neater on CAD but wanted to do it now.
From it I have worked out that the offset I need is 30.5mm, or make it 30mm.
So for my car, the widest possible tyres I can fit are 285mm, with an offset of 30mm.
I think it would be possible to go a little wider, maybe 295, but you would need to “massage” area B in a bit, and it may be possible to tweak camber. Interesting day.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Another excellent day today, got lots done, may not look like much but these trim jobs are pretty fiddly, especially as I am paranoid about scratching anything. Went down again to U-Pull-It (my new fave place) and picked up a rear passenger electric window mechanism, drilled out the rivets, actually pretty easy job. Took my test cable and went over to their battery stand and hooked it up to make sure it worked and was quiet, got a few funny looks. Fitted that up, bit fiddly but was patient, used small size gutter bolts as they have a nice low profile head and bolted it in rather than rivet in case I need to get at it again.
Also picked up the missing trim for the passenger rear door. Got all the external trim pieces fitted, also all the door rubbers. Smothering them in WD40 makes them pretty easy to fit, whilst at UPI also got some of the small black plastic rivet plugs for the ends of the rubbers that anchor them.
Then got stuck into cleaning the interior and it came up great, think I may have to ring CPC and chat to him about how to bring the steering wheel back to life. Thoroughly cleaned the seat belts etc. with warm soapy water to get rid of any of the dust and crap form painting. Next will be fitting the carpet, then bringing back the interior and cleaning it and fitting it, then pretty much its up on the hoist again for the oily bits.
Here’s a few random pics in no particular order.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well I sort of want this thread to be accurate and hopefully a source of some info for people about originality for the VR Senators. A guy has kindly replied back on the HSV forum, and I trust these guys they are very knowledgeable.
For the record, and to finish this off, below is a picture I have made up showing the two different styles of steering wheel, to be honest without someone pointing it out not sure I would have noticed unless I got them side by side, and unless your really into it, it probably doesn’t really matter.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well thought I would post this for interests sake. I have just received the 3D scan back of the existing wheel. Interesting its so accurate its picked up the distortion in the rim etc. Its accurate to about 0.1mm. Next step is some 3D CAD manipulation to get what I want which is going to be fairly complex, at least I can do that myself otherwise it would blow the cost of the rims out of the water.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Well fitted the finished wheel today, extremely happy with the results. Thought I may as well post some pics, I followed the process CPC posted earlier with the guy on the Brock forum so won’t go into too much detail. Only thing is I didn’t spray at all I used cloths. Personaly I didn’t want it dead smooth, I wanted to keep some of the battle scars but freshen it up. It would be really easy to make it almost like plastic smooth is ya wanted. Some photos
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777OK, bit of an update. I have spoken to a lot of people about various options, and everyone of them has its pluses and minuses. It really came down to the 9″, a built M80, or the Harrop 12 Bolt. I pretty early on decided to not go down the build my own route. I think if I wasn’t going the 454 I might have, but I just think it needs to be spot on and I am just not sure this is the first diff I should attempt to build.
In the end I have gone for this with a Detroit Locker and 3.50:1 ratio.
I know everyone is different and really some of this came down to a p#$%ing contest as all 3 could have worked, but for me these are the reasons;
1. Its a direct bolt in replacement for an IRS VR
2. Its an Australian product sold locally
3. Its not Ford
4. Harrop, although expensive, are recognised as top quality
5. Its available in a full range of ratios
6. The help, advice and service I have received by Mark at Harrop has been excellent.
7. The Detroit Locker is bullet proof, tried and true, and perfect for what I have planned.-
This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Woo Hoo, father Xmas has come early. The brakes arrived today, little bit of a mess up getting them that my lad sorted through his work, upshot was they gave me a pretty healthy discount. Look awesome in the flesh. The red calipers were special order, seeing them now really glad I went red, should look nice against the dark car colour.
Dead right about the 12 bolt, it’s the GM equiv to a 9″, It’s 8.875″, should be bullet proof. Will pm you later Chris, too excited about th brakes right now
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This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by VRSenator065.
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