VB LSA Commodore build

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

VRSenator065 wrote:

Judge1 Frazer wrote:

Cheers Guys but is there any issues using the spacers that you know of

Are they legal?

yes they are legal here in nz as engineer/certifier suggested them just got to be made right.

Immortality wrote:

Judge1 Frazer wrote:

Hey all I have done some home work and modifying the cross member is out of the question so now looking at spacers ( I know I said I wouldn’t but ah ) so can any tell me pros and cons if any Castlemaine have a kit that would fit it under the bonnet (Thoughts)

So a custom tubular K frame is not legal either then?

yes and no I would have to prove it was made right and be equivalent or better than factory

Immortality wrote:

I’d be using a later model K frame.

Talk to me what k frame would make this better but with or without spacers

Anonymous wrote:

Judge1 Frazer wrote:

Cheers Guys but is there any issues using the spacers that you know of

Will mess with the driveline angles, might get away with it or maybe needs correction, hard to tell each car is different.

I assume it is how you set it first as you would know Ian ,or am I wrong  spacers have been used for years with old 350 and 400 Chevy’s

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

The output shaft of the Trans needs to match the input of the diff, putting spacers in drops the engine but not the Trans mount, this changes the angle, in a few of the AWD conversions I’ve done I’ve had slight mismatches that resulted in vibrations at certain speeds, not always just now and again… Just figured I’d put it out there.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

The later K frames (VN onwards I believe) have a little more room for things like headers  but won’t solve your height issue.

Anonymous wrote:

The output shaft of the Trans needs to match the input of the diff, putting spacers in drops the engine but not the Trans mount, this changes the angle, in a few of the AWD conversions I’ve done I’ve had slight mismatches that resulted in vibrations at certain speeds, not always just now and again… Just figured I’d put it out there.

It’s easy enough to change the pinion angle on a semi-trailing diff on a Commodore.

 

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

so had a go at a temporary  spacers wanted to see if it worked first, so it does fit still sticks up 20mm but still needs to go back ,would still need to cut sump , I can see why others use a manual rack

20190616_162506 by Frazer Russell[/url], on Flickr

bottom x member sump

20190616_161704 by Frazer Russell[/url], on Flickr

a lot lower than last time

20190616_161840 by Frazer Russell[/url], on Flickr

header clearance  not much

20190616_162217 by Frazer Russell[/url], on Flickr

steering clearance not much

20190616_162448 by Frazer Russell[/url], on Flickr

sump with 10mm clearance of x member

20190616_152817 by Frazer Russell[/url], on Flickr

temporary spacers

20190616_161829 by Frazer Russell[/url], on Flickr

header clearance drivers

 

 

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

Immortality wrote:

The later K frames (VN onwards I believe) have a little more room for things like headers but won’t solve your height issue.

IJ. wrote:

The output shaft of the Trans needs to match the input of the diff, putting spacers in drops the engine but not the Trans mount, this changes the angle, in a few of the AWD conversions I’ve done I’ve had slight mismatches that resulted in vibrations at certain speeds, not always just now and again… Just figured I’d put it out there.

It’s easy enough to change the pinion angle on a semi-trailing diff on a Commodore.

Yip I have the arms to adjust the pinion angle

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

spacer kit from Castlemaine https://www.rodshop.com.au/commodore-k-frame-spacers-suit-lsa-conversions.html

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

If you have adjustable arms by all means go for it, apart from the increase in ride height the driveline angles were the only downside I could think of, Holden went +50mm in the Crosstrac cars.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Bloody hell. That’s a BIG spacer.

I wouldn’t go bigger then 25mm personally. Change the blower hat. Or Mill the top of the one you have.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Just thinking out loud, I assume with a 50mm spacer, you need to compensate with the coil overs adjusted down 50mm.  Won’t that mean the lower suspension wishbone angles up at the end 50mm at normal ride height, does that affect anything like bump steer or whatever?

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

The LCA mounts go down with the subframe, ditto on the rack mounts, all it really means is if you want the same static ride height you lose 50mm travel from the shocks.

Holden screwed the pooch on bump steer anyway, eventually if you lower it too much you’ll drop the roll centres and it’ll handle like a pileOshit.. (#1 reason for the BMW build)

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

cava454 wrote:

Bloody hell. That’s a BIG spacer. I wouldn’t go bigger then 25mm personally. Change the blower hat. Or Mill the top of the one you have.

milling the top is about 5mm off fuck all looked at that the hats are not cheap anymore as they have to come from the state

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

VRSenator065 wrote:

Just thinking out loud, I assume with a 50mm spacer, you need to compensate with the coil overs adjusted down 50mm. Won’t that mean the lower suspension wishbone angles up at the end 50mm at normal ride height, does that affect anything like bump steer or whatever?

What Ian said , probably gives me more room for the big gearbox in the tunnel  it’s not small

the Lca are still about 50mm down lower than the x member so got a lot to play with

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Judge1 Frazer.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yep, noted.  All good.  Nothing wrong with wanting to keep it all under the bonnet  

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

50mm will make headers a nightmare IMO. Collectors will hang heaps low.

will require brake lines etc to be modified. So keep that in mind. It would open a can of worms

 

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

cava454 wrote:

50mm will make headers a nightmare IMO. Collectors will hang heaps low. will require brake lines etc to be modified. So keep that in mind. It would open a can of worms

 

I hear you cava but the lot is getting modified or changed also building my own headers so the nightmare will be mine if I go this way

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

The Headers will have the same relationship to the subframe they always had…

I think if anything building the headers will be easier as there will be tons of room on the drivers side for a change.

Just to be clear I’m NOT advocating 50mm spacers just mentioned it as that’s how Holden got around it on the CrossTrac cars, I’d use what ever gives you 10mm bonnet clearance and call it good.

[Heron SSVParticipant Central Coast NSW2009 Pajero Exceed 84 VK SL LS3 View build HERE Member since: May 5, 2015 Posts: 585]

MPW used a custom k frame made out of tube in their All Show VK. They have build videos on YouTube, wouldn’t be cheap but it might be an idea to get you the clearance you need. I think Street Machine did the vids

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

Heron SSV wrote:

MPW used a custom k frame made out of tube in their All Show VK. They have build videos on YouTube, wouldn’t be cheap but it might be an idea to get you the clearance you need. I think Street Machine did the vids

Hey Heron yes, they have use McDonald brothers racing k frame but it’s deigned for racing and it would be set at the same height as a standard k frame would be nice to have but !!!!!!! very expensive 2500, http://www.mcdonaldbrosracing.com.au/frontsuspensioncommodore.html

 

some one on here did link some photos to face book of a vk getting done and the blower was only 40mm out the bonnet would be interested on what they had done , I could live with that as if I have to modify the bonnet might as well do it with out spacers , read another forum and the spacers still makes blower stick up

[Judge1 FrazerParticipant new zealand1983 VB LSA MG9 6060 6 speed View build HERE Member since: February 5, 2016 Posts: 775]

going to have another crack at this and remove the sump and see how it sits and what I can do to modify the sump without spacers

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Anonymous wrote:

The Headers will have the same relationship to the subframe they always had… I think if anything building the headers will be easier as there will be tons of room on the drivers side for a change. Just to be clear I’m NOT advocating 50mm spacers just mentioned it as that’s how Holden got around it on the CrossTrac cars, I’d use what ever gives you 10mm bonnet clearance and call it good.

More so in retro spec to ground clearance.

I don’t know if you have mentioned it or not but what’s your engineer say? I’m shocked if they say yes.

Out of curiosity. What’s a CTSV hat worth? Is the cost difference that much? Bear in mind you could sell you brand new zl1 lid for decent money. ESP to someone in USA. Those guys are always looking for them. Just food for thought.

I didn’t want to stuff around with spacers, I didn’t like the idea of them and the potential suspension and steering geometry changes it could make. I was happy to run a small scoop and went with that.

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