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Today End! Went and borrowed a Tech2 from a Mate this morning on my way back my Solder Sucker had arrived so I was able to repair my EFI-Live screen, found a couple of issues in my tune file corrected them and while it was a little better the Throttle disconnect was still happening, I was able to watch what it was doing and when on the EFI-Live screen in real time and noticed it was only if I had the brakes on… “Brake Torque Management” Closes the throttle kills fuel and spark if both pedals are used… I’m a left foot braker so it bit me badly as I was probably trail braking at the track, what makes it worse is there’s a delay timer, the longer it see’s it happening the longer it takes to restore throttle control… DOH Temp Gumby “Fix” for now is to adjust the pedal switch so you need a lot of pressure before the ECU see’s it, this will allow me to stall it up a bit on the start line and light trail braking, tested it out in the Shed, had 3 wheels spinning before I ran out of Shed!
Whats it going to take to actually fix it rather than temporary?
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777
Wouldn’t it be better to go cable? Or are there some goodies you want with it being fbw?
Today End! Went and borrowed a Tech2 from a Mate this morning on my way back my Solder Sucker had arrived so I was able to repair my EFI-Live screen, found a couple of issues in my tune file corrected them and while it was a little better the Throttle disconnect was still happening, I was able to watch what it was doing and when on the EFI-Live screen in real time and noticed it was only if I had the brakes on… “Brake Torque Management” Closes the throttle kills fuel and spark if both pedals are used… I’m a left foot braker so it bit me badly as I was probably trail braking at the track, what makes it worse is there’s a delay timer, the longer it see’s it happening the longer it takes to restore throttle control… DOH Temp Gumby “Fix” for now is to adjust the pedal switch so you need a lot of pressure before the ECU see’s it, this will allow me to stall it up a bit on the start line and light trail braking, tested it out in the Shed, had 3 wheels spinning before I ran out of Shed!
Whats it going to take to actually fix it rather than temporary?
Wouldn’t it be better to go cable? Or are there some goodies you want with it being fbw?
TRAC is bundled into the DBW system, I’ve found out my guy that programmed it all couldn’t find a Sedan VIN to use so used a Cab/chassis one and this is where it all goes wrong as you can’t manually turn trac off, on the hunt for a VZ 6.0L Auto Sedan VIN to use so we can build a working file, the ABS Modules are wired differently as well… I could rewire it then TRAC would be on all the time… don’t want that ..
VIN secured, will see how it goes next week when I get the new files for my mate!
I saw your post on EFILive, if you want to send me your file I can have a go at turning off the BTM. Its a common request on 6L tunes. That way itll be off all the time.
I saw your post on EFILive, if you want to send me your file I can have a go at turning off the BTM. Its a common request on 6L tunes. That way itll be off all the time.
Thanks Ben. it’s already off in the Tune, turns out it’s the wrong Tune being based on a Ute tune it’s never going to work..
I managed to get a sedan VIN and my guy will build one based on that then I can roll it into my existing tune, with any luck that should sort it!
Today End!
Tubby AWD Bitches Bath day!
Tonner hasn’t been done this year so was well overdue, could barely see the White on the front bumper for bugs!
Today End!
Got a file with BTM deleted that works great, can actually flash it to the Stall with the Brake on, thanks Ben!
Also took some time to correct the ergonomics of the Drivers seat… when I built the rails I totally forgot I’d be wearing a Helmet in this thing… DOH
So I had the back of the seat too upright, when you added the Helmet (or a really HUGE head) it bent your neck forward and wasn’t exactly a comfortable driving position..
Because of all the Chassis Bracing under the seat there was no more adjustment left in the brackets, instead of totally remaking the rails I machined up a pair of 20mm spacers to go under the front mounts, found some +20mm Hi Tensile bolts moved the seat base one notch forward and now it’s just about perfect!
Today End! Got a file with BTM deleted that works great, can actually flash it to the Stall with the Brake on, thanks Ben! Also took some time to correct the ergonomics of the Drivers seat… when I built the rails I totally forgot I’d be wearing a Helmet in this thing… DOH So I had the back of the seat too upright, when you added the Helmet (or a really HUGE head) it bent your neck forward and wasn’t exactly a comfortable driving position.. Because of all the Chassis Bracing under the seat there was no more adjustment left in the brackets, instead of totally remaking the rails I machined up a pair of 20mm spacers to go under the front mounts, found some +20mm Hi Tensile bolts moved the seat base one notch forward and now it’s just about perfect!
Glad to hear its sorted… now you can get back to making vids WRC style
It’s going to be a very different car to drive next event Ben!!
What does BTM actually shut down other than the throttle?
(felt like it was pulling spark and fuel)
Because I trail brake with my left foot I had 0 response mid corner then 100% Power shortly afterwards…
Today p.s.
Turns out the E38’s are as fussy a bitch as I thought… The ABS module looks at the VIN in the ECM and if it’s not a type match it throws a wobbly…. so now I have a Sedan VIN, Sedan Module and Sedan configuration… still have the TRAC off error but no DTC’s or BTM so for now it’s “good”
It’s going to be a very different car to drive next event Ben!! What does BTM actually shut down other than the throttle? (felt like it was pulling spark and fuel) Because I trail brake with my left foot I had 0 response mid corner then 100% Power shortly afterwards…
Ok, so for anyone following along – BTM = Brake Torque Management it helps manages delivered engine torque when the brakes are ‘applied’ one of the reasons is it helps with braking rather than have it push through. (BTM is disabled on manuals). So when the brakes input is active the ECM limits delivered torque to a certain amount based on commanded torque (pedal) and engine load. Depending on other settings in the tune, it can manage the torque by one of 3 ways: Spark, Throttle or Fuel cut. The way it limits torque is also dependent on whether it wants a fast torque cut (gear change) or a slow one (some types of engine limiter). Slow types use throttle, fast uses spark and fuel.
In your case with trail braking it would probably use spark… followed by throttle if not enough torque reduction was achieved, your logs should tell you. Also refer B0515 to B0517, only Spark and Throttle are enabled for torque management in the Traction control system which makes sense.. as a fuel cut wouldn’t be very elegant when you have electronic throttle capability.
Also, there is a “tip in” torque limiting and tip in ETC rate limits (rate at which ETC can open). Check your Pedal vs. TPS trace in the log to see if it is damped, you don’t want an undamped response as it will cause the TB motor to wear out quickly but quicken it up to make sure its responsive. Tip in torque reduction could probably be removed.
You can get some good data rates with the BBL function in your FlashScan V2 so if you get all your parameters sorted then have it running the whole time your on the track you can go back and see what was happening. If you rig on of the digital inputs on the FSV2 to a button that’s easy to reach, you can mark any spots in the log you want to take a closer look at later. Another way is have the log timer displayed on the FSV2 screen and remember the time it occurred however I find it hard to remember what time in the log it was when Im racing around a track
Interesting as I had all those off at once stage and it was still limiting, just wondering if it’s an additional hidden table/parameter that isn’t displayed in EFI-Live..
Thanks again for all your help on this Ben it’s making a massive difference!
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Bloody hell there is soooo much in the tune, it’s quite incredible really. Great its sorted, cant wait to see a decent video of this beast in action!!
Bloody hell there is soooo much in the tune, it’s quite incredible really. Great its sorted, cant wait to see a decent video of this beast in action!!
Was almost going to sit out the next round if I couldn’t get the Throttle sorted…. it was sick 120Y at the Apexes the V8 Supercar for 20 meters rinse repeat….
NOT the safest thing to drive ..
E38 Tunes have a huge amount of “hidden” things…. very powerful ECM compared to the LS1B’s
Ben = Wizard!
Interesting as I had all those off at once stage and it was still limiting, just wondering if it’s an additional hidden table/parameter that isn’t displayed in EFI-Live.. Thanks again for all your help on this Ben it’s making a massive difference!
There is a lot that isn’t displayed in EFILive or any other aftermarket editing program. With over 2MB of Flash it would be several peoples life work to reveal them all and not to mention, most aren’t needed once its all setup by GM. Even the older stuff with 1/20 of the size, when all the parameters are displayed from the calibration its very detailed and mostly not necessary.
Those cals I mentioned are for the TCS system, but the BTM is a semi-separate subset of the Torque Management system.
Look forward to hearing about the next track day!
Should be a quantum leap in driveability having a throttle that isn’t 0 or 100%
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777Great to have you part of the Commodores Plus brains trust Ben
Great to have you part of the Commodores Plus brains trust Ben
Agree totally, I can’t stress enough how much of a relief this is to have it sorted, the Tonner took me 18 months 5 trips to Holden, 2 trips to Sydney and 1 to Adelaide to get it to work…
When the Lexcen started doing the BTM BS my heart sank… Something Ben mentioned above rang a bell though, I think my original Tonner file was built on a manual calibration as BTM has never been an issue in that, either that or CrossTrac disables it for some reason..
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