LS1 cam injector and converter advice

[HSVGTSParticipant BrisbaneVS GTS View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 39]

Hey guys im building up a LS1 powered VL skid/drag/powercruise car and after some info on a cam choice and injectors Im not super knowledgeable on cams so would like some help/advice

Firstly the car will more then likely have 3 stages to the engine combo

1st current is mafless tune  extractors intake and exhaust

2nd will be cam and a little head work cam must be blower friendly but lumpy

3rd M112 eaton blower big water to air heat exchanger

at some point it will also be changed to run E85 probably with the cam

 

So I know overlap (Low LSA) is great for N/A but I will need something around 14-15 LSA for the blower im not doing things twice so i will run the blower cam N/A for a bit but I want something pretty big and lumpy the stall im thinking will be around the 3500 mark as when the blower is on I wont need the stall as much I also believe its better the have more exhaust lift with a blower I was thinking a cam in the 230-240’s id like to hear what others have used and what they thought.

Also im looking at a good set of injectors im considering the ID’s but is there a brand that are a bit cheaper and still decent and reliable ? also what are people getting out of the stock injectors ? I know the switch to E85 will need the bigger injectors would the cam and normal PULP be fine with stock injectors ? im looking at injectors around 80lb so make sure there is room for upgrades.

Im also wondering what converter people would recommend to handle the power and torque im using a Th400

any advice is much appreciated thank you

 

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I’m running ID injectors in mine (and am very happy with them) general consensus I have got though is they are extra money for not a huge gain unless your ocd.  As I understand it they are a Bosch motorsport injector that are then tweaked by Injector Dynamics to be matched etc.  I sort of think of it like blueprinting an engine but for the injectors.  The thing you haven’t mentioned is the rest of the fuel system.  All the lines, pumps etc will need to to be E85 compatible, and you are going to want is pump(s) lines etc to be able to handle the upgrades and consequent increase in fuel demand.   Imo a fuel system should be considered as a whole from the tank right through to the injectors.

[HSVGTSParticipant BrisbaneVS GTS View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 39]

1/2″ line 3/8 return E85 compatible still deciding on the tank not sure if ill run factory tank or a fuel cell in the boot but im leaning towards the cell will run a 3 litre surge tank fuel pumps i havent yet settled on mainly because i havent looked into them all that much just yet but would prefer 1 big pump as the main pump rather then 2 smaller ones side by side

 

[MichaelParticipant VY Calais 383ci GT42 turbo. View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 208]

Ring Camtech about cam advice. I got mine from there a little while ago. More and more people are recommending them now as well.

 

The Holley Dominator pump will be good for the surge tank. I think the ‘1400’ size is the one you’d need.

Also the Walbro e85 intank pump. Can’t remember the name, but if you google that, it’ll show up.

 

I had those two pumps as my setup. Ran e85 @ around 480rwkw.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

What’s your intended power and budget?

The way your planning to do this will have some expensive tuning costs.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by  cava454.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I killed (burnt out) a Holley billet pump as a surge.  The way I had it explained to me was they are made for fuel injection as the  main pump i.e. high pressure/flow.  Really with a surge pump its more a carby style application, it just sits there quietly ticking over making sure the 3L surge is topped up and the overflows back into the main tank.  Like everything that’s not to say others haven’t used them successfully, that’s just my experience.  I run two small Pierburg (German) pumps side by side for the surge, they are OE equipment on alot of German cars and fully E85 compatible and pretty cheap off eBay.  If you have a little $$ consider the Bain aluminium fuel tank like I have, in built 3L surge, 80L capacity, pumps all integrated on the front of the tank, leaves your boot totally free for the esky full of beer

 

[MichaelParticipant VY Calais 383ci GT42 turbo. View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 208]

VRSenator065 wrote:

I killed (burnt out) a Holley billet pump as a surge. The way I had it explained to me was they are made for fuel injection as the main pump i.e. high pressure/flow. Really with a surge pump its more a carby style application, it just sits there quietly ticking over making sure the 3L surge is topped up and the overflows back into the main tank. Like everything that’s not to say others haven’t used them successfully, that’s just my experience. I run two small Pierburg (German) pumps side by side for the surge, they are OE equipment on alot of German cars and fully E85 compatible and pretty cheap off eBay. If you have a little $$ consider the Bain aluminium fuel tank like I have, in built 3L surge, 80L capacity, pumps all integrated on the front of the tank, leaves your boot totally free for the esky full of beer

I had the Holley going from the surge to the motor. The Holley dominator pump is two pumps built into one. One of the pumps can be turned off when cruising. Not sure if thats an aftermarket controller thing, or aftermarket ecu feature.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea right, perfect pump from surge to motor, I had it as the pump that just topped up the surge tank.  I did know the two pump models can switch, nice feature.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

I’ll be having 450 walbro feeding a surge with twin 450’s to the motor.

[MichaelParticipant VY Calais 383ci GT42 turbo. View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 208]

cava454 wrote:

I’ll be having 450 walbro feeding a surge with twin 450’s to the motor.

they are the e85 ones yeah?

thats what I used for the tank pickup.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Yeah correct

[HSVGTSParticipant BrisbaneVS GTS View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 39]

I dont want 2 pumps feeding the motor from the surge tank because the chance of one pump dropping out and then the engine will still run but lean out up top so if the pump goes id prefer the car to shut down instead of leaning out so yeah will have one pump feeding the surge and one feeding to the motor from the surge.

Cava I dont have a power target its a toy and what it makes is what it makes its been put together with stuff I have laying around have even considered a crazy twin m112 setup for a bit of something different and for fun but for now will just be the single m112.

Budget there isnt one and that isnt to say its unlimited but at this point i have only invested $950 (done alot of buying and selling with other peoples abandon projects and scored big on a stolen recovered R8) I have a VL calais needs a bit of work a turbo diff, LS1 engine, full conversion including extractors, 343mm harrop brakes, twin 3″ exhaust, quicksilver shifter, few gauges, fuel line, surge tank, catch can and a few other bits and pieces next big purchases and only real things missing is fuel pumps, Th400, tail shaft, full spool and diff gears

There will be 2 tunes needed and there will be a little time between them so im not worried running it in stages gives me a chance to have fun sooner

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

My rule of thumb for fuel systems is to calculate what you need then double it, I run a Tsunami lift pump to an 8L Surge, it has 2x 460LPH Walbros in it, 1 pump is enough for my power output on 98, I stage the pumps with aeromotive controllers with the 2nd pump coming in above 3000.

[HSVGTSParticipant BrisbaneVS GTS View build HERE Member since: March 1, 2015 Posts: 39]

you not worried about the second pump not coming on and running lean up top ? or can your setup run on the one pump ?

 

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

HSVGTS wrote:

you not worried about the second pump not coming on and running lean up top ? or can your setup run on the one pump ?

Yes it will run fine on a single pump, 2nd pump is just insurance if the primary pump starts to lay down a bit for any reason, nothing kills a blown engine faster than a Lean out under load.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Rather have 2 pumps and have a slight loss of fuel pressure with one failure then a single pump and total loss of pressure with a failure.

this is also why u double the capacity you need rather then just meet it.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by  cava454.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Anonymous wrote:

…to an 8L Surge

At 8L pretty sure that’s called a reserve tank not a surge!!

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

VRSenator065 wrote:

IJ. wrote:

…to an 8L Surge

At 8L pretty sure that’s called a reserve tank not a surge!!

It’s full of Foam and Pumps so it’s a surge tank  :XD:

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Of course coz real race car :)  I actually didn’t look properly and thought it was a Cav post, was just winding him up

• This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

All good, might have been a reserve tank if it were a 4cyl, it’d suck it bone dry in 2 mins at full noise so yeah Surge tank only 

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