Lakeside Track / Sprint Day – Second Go & Third Go – OK My Track Day Thread!

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Saturday 18/4/15.

So after my first failed attempt [refer to my other Lakeside thread] the car got re-inforced pedal box, new radiator, new pads / rotors / master cylinder.

Through the BMW car club qld I jumped on track arvo at Lakeside for $125, which gets you a minimum 4×4 hot laps. Luckily we go 6×4 hot laps.

So again we were split up into 4 groups, but this time all the BMW car club people were grouped together (about half the 12 cars in our group were BMWs). We hooned off and I soon got my race line back from the last time I was here.

Since I have had new pads / rotors all round and replaced the master cylinder I thought the car would have some good breaking. I was worried though as I only had the Holden v8 brakes (289mm single piston front / 279mm solid rotor rear) not the HSV upgrade (328mm dual piston front / 280mm vented rotor rear), so I knew late breaking on the main straight probably wasn’t going to be a good idea.

Last time the car got really hot (80-90%) but after new ‘fenix’ aluminium radiator has been installed the temp gauge never got over a third the whole day, infact the faster I went the cooler it got! So that was one less worry.

I managed to get past my previous PB (1:12.1) in the second session, down to 1:11.1. Thought the car would have less than 1:10 but didn’t happen.

I was about the only person in my group not running semi-slicks, so I think that says something about street tyres for sprint days. Blokes were saying they are good for 2 seconds at Lakeside.

In the end I got a PB of 1:10.03, so close. BUT I was really inconsistent all day with laps mostly in the 1:11’s. I messed around with the race line but couldn’t make up and major times. Couldn’t even work out where I was gaining time to get 1:10’s, but anyway…

As the day went along the brakes weren’t holding up so no late breaking, especially after one time I almost run off the end of the track and another time just ran off the raceline due to late breaking. BUT other cars were doing tons of late breaking.

I did drag a few small BMW’s down the straight, so that was fun!

I couldn’t really get the car to turn onto the main straight under power, as it would under steer towards to double white lines that we aren’t allowed to cross (6 month ban if 1m over the lines due to too many crashes last year).

YOUTUBE CLIP – Here’s a clip of a 1:10.1 lap using my GoPro mounted with suction cap on rear left passenger window.

I did get one decent drift coming out of ‘hungrys’, skid pan experience came in handy, I didn’t go that hard again.

I did get clutch slip one time, so I think the clutch might be on the way out.

My 198,000km standard 304 performed perfectly all day, so I’m happy with that. Could do with a little bit more power but I think braking and suspension is more important at Lakeside.

I was going flat accelerator down the whole way of the straight, so that takes a bit of balls at first.

So how did the brakes go at the end of the day – well turns out after 24 hot laps (6×4) I was done to metal on metal and stuffed the rotors on front right. I personally thought my mechanic didn’t change my brake pads as I had paid him to do… turns out those brembo’s don’t last long. Guess it says something about 1500kg car with big iron block over front wheels.

So second track day, second flat bed to the mechanics! I’m thinking VE front brake upgrade (hopefully they fit under 17’s)…. Maybe a new front sway bar to avoid under steer onto the main straight. Definitely some semi slicks.

Had a great time and definitely recommend!!!

Any Q’s just ask…

• This topic was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by  SSEN8R VS #1081. Reason: Changed title so can keep adding to this thread my track day experiences

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Great write up mate, thanks for sharing looks like a real hoot. Be careful with the brakes fitting under the 17’s, its not only the size its the shape too. I made up a cardboard template when I did mine and the calipers would have fouled my wheels not on the outside but actually against the back face of the spokes, so it depends on what wheel not only the diameter.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

p.s. mate that video is awesome, soooo makes me want to do it, great stuff!!

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Get on it Gary! You forget about crashing after the first lap hehe. Seriously it’s all about pushing it as hard as you are comfortable with. I was only pushing 8/10 due to my brake issues, but as the car is I don’t think I would have gone much faster, just slide out and crashed…

Cheers for the template suggestion – but how did you go about creating the cutout?

I run stock VS Senator rims (17×8).

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

ah I thought about it for more than 3 secs – You made a surround template, around the brake caliper and rotor/hub, and then did the inverse cutout, which is what you have in your rim in the pic.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Actually close, with the PBR (from memory) kit I was looking at, they actually supplied a 1:1 pdf template you printed out and used, so did Willwood. But yep if you didn’t have one that how I would make it. As you can see from mine they wouldn’t have hit on the outside but touched on the spokes.

So going to do some track stuff, actually my lad and I went out to the state karting titles on the week end and we are going to get back into that, he will drive I will spin the spanners. But doing some track days in the Senator would/will be awesome

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Took my wheel off – the chunks taken out of the tyres are quite significant. Street tyres don’t like the track. Red circled the chunks missing.

To complete the thread, here’s my brake upgrade..

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Next track day is May 29th, so lining up some semi slicks. Hopefully won’t go home on flat bed for the third time!!!

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Wow mate, sure tore those tyres apart. You must have been on it 

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

I was trying to give it 9/10ths – no run off at Lakeside and plenty of ppl have died there, its famous for it… They were squeeling around every corner! thought they would work better and survive better but they didn’t…. only lost 0.5mm of tread though, but tons of chunks as you can see.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[KroozerParticipant Forbes, NSW91 VN SS View build HERE Member since: February 19, 2015 Posts: 336]

The chunks seem to be fairly consistent, are all the tyres like that or just that one?

[VS 5.0Participant Perth WAVE SSV Z Series M6 View build HERE Member since: March 31, 2015 Posts: 118]

Your tyres are crying in that vid.

When I used to run my old VK at Barbagello, the tyres had small rolls of rubber on the edge of each block and the discs would be glowing blue after 5 laps.

Track days are awesome fun. Until you’ve done one, you don’t appreciate how hard it is to drive fast when the pros make it look so easy.

Get onto it Gary !!

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

all like that, but a bit more on the fronts. i’ll double check though, didn’t really do a comparison.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

goodyear eagle F1’s all round – 235/45/17… were $250 ea.

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I want to boys, I really want to go out with my lad so he can show me how’s it done then coach me a little. Looks like so much fun.

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

**i’ve changed the thread title, so this will be my track day thread, instead of creating a third go thread…**

right new semi slicks purchased – I got Hankook RS3 / Z222 semi slicks (235/45/R17) for $189 each on a spare set of wheels, so I can swap em at the track.

Marked the back of the tyres with paint pen so can see how they were differently, with the intention of getting them swapped around at some stage. This is cos of the clockwise direction of the track will wear one side more and the tyres are directional. You can read more on the tyre selection at http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/semi-slicks-for-track-day-your-experiences/

All booked into next track day with BMW car club qld on Fri May 29th. This is full track day and will get up to 12 sets of 6 hot laps, for only $195.

Since the last track day I have had the front brakes upgraded, new heavy duty clutch, new leads, new rotor button/cap. You can read more about the brake upgrade at http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

Can’t wait hopefully can take a few seconds off my PB of 1:10.03 and be more consistent.

Also got a laser thermometer so I can check out the temp of the brakes and tyres. Will also keep track of the tyre pressures. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261459772472

Also organised to catch up with a mate that has done lakeside tons to go through my youtube clip together, as he says he has a few tips on the raceline for me. Youtube clip can be found up above or here http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/#post-5128

 

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by  SSEN8R VS #1081. Reason: typo in URL

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[KroozerParticipant Forbes, NSW91 VN SS View build HERE Member since: February 19, 2015 Posts: 336]

Well be interesting to see how much difference the tyres and new brakes make 

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Yesterday (29/5/15) did another track day with the BMW Car Club of Qld at Lakeside Raceway.

Since my last track day I have upgraded the front brakes, new heavy duty clutch and got a set of track tyres (hankook RS3/Z222). I was hoping that those upgrades would be enough to take a second or two off my PB time of 1:10.03 – well I ended up with 1:07.5 by mid arvo – pretty happy. Vid at bottom of post.

It took the first couple of hot lap sessions to build some confidence in the brakes and the tyres. The tyres work great, I think I could have even pushed em more, but they do need a lap or two to build up heat in em to get the grip up. Brakes worked great but they need some heat to be effective. I could have pushed them a lot harder but hitting 190km/h at the end of the main straight and stomping on the brakes requires some big balls to do it later and later. Especially when they remind you at the track briefing that Lakeside has had more deaths than every track in oz combined… Was getting the ABS kicking in quiet a lot.

I arrived early and did the track walk with Doug Chapel, where I did pick up a couple of good pointers about the race line, so that would have to account for part of the better times.

Ticked over 199,000km too at the track. The motor didn’t miss a beat but it didn’t like being below 1/3 of a tank other wise would start to cough a little. Not bad for stock original motor – never been rebuilt.

I reset the trip computer before the firt session, surprised the fuel economy wasn’t worse… Supposedly Lakeside has the highest average track speed to.

Ended up doing 10 hot lap sessions, totalling 70 hot laps with very few laps traffic affected. Not bad for $195. I was also quiet happy with my lap time consistency. I did a couple of sessions with all hot laps within less than 1 sec difference.

I shown plenty of expensive BMW’s, like M5 (told $200k) and a couple of M3s, how to drive. I would have been a bit disappointed if I was them. Even an old bloke in an Aston Martin, but he must have been in his mid 70’s so I’ll give him credit for taking his car to the track. Will say that BMW 135i had impressive grunt down the straight, and would be small enough to go fast around the corners with better tyres.

So did I make it home under my own steam, but I think the back brakes are done, and my upgraded fronts, which cost me $2k, don’t seem right and are noisey. Also my brake fluid was down to min (remember had em upgraded a couple of weeks ago and done less than 300km on em), so I top it up to max. It was down to min again by mid arvo, so something isn’t really right there. Guess the brakes were wearing down quickly. Will keep the car in the garage and take it to the mechanic during the week. Still need to swap back to my street tyres, so will have a closer look then.

Next time? Well going overseas for a month in a couple of months so it maybe on hold for a bit, not cos the track day is expensive, prepping and fixing the car is. Also not sure how much more time I could get out of the car without more horsepower. I think a bigger front swaybar would let me carry some more speed onto the main straight. Upgrade the rear brakes to some better rotors (currently solid 270mm) and pads. Think next time I need to go with the HSV car club to meet some other commo track racers, but in Qld their a little quiet on the motorsport front – from their FB they seem to be more worried about selling their couple year old HSV so they can buy the new one.

Vid of PB lap of 1:07.5 chasing a BMW M3. You can see he has more power, but take his foot off the accelerator on a few of the ‘hairy’ spots.

Side by side vid, where you can see the tyres and later braking are making up time all over the track.

some guys take their track days a little too seriously…

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

[KroozerParticipant Forbes, NSW91 VN SS View build HERE Member since: February 19, 2015 Posts: 336]

Awesome news mate

But I think you need to take it to a different mechanic, he seems like a bit of a cock…

[SSEN8R VS #1081Participant Brisbane, North Side\'97 VS II HSV Senator 185i View build HERE Member since: March 16, 2015 Posts: 227]

Yep, i’m thinking the same thing…

My build thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-ii-senator-185i-1081/
My track day thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/lakeside-track-sprint-day-second-go/
My VS brake upgrade thread - http://www.commodoresplus.com.au/forums/topic/vs-brake-upgrades/

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