Improving VR Steering

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

My lower sway bar is opposite to yours Gary

 

i have links  connected to holes furthest foward with is stiff, I also have adjustable rear sway it again is on stuff, soft is for in rain or with none grippy tyres i believe

suspension is 12 clicks from soft, has total of 30 clicks

Iv found been between 10-15 clicks from soft Myn is great, go towards 5 clicks from hard or on hard the car will start to skate much easier but back 10-15 from soft it grips well and does not want to slide out at all unless I use HP to slide out

 

top mounts Myn are 3 degrees inwards witch looks same as yours

 

not possitive but I have 2+ degrees camber on front and 1.5 ish toe in

 

only difference is I have VL manual rack not sure if they have same ration but I’m guessing they would

 

Myn steering is quite twitchy, I wreckin it’s the tow in that does it but can not have that with out camber to go with it

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Immortality wrote:

What these things really need is more rigidity in the body pan/chassis but unfortunately there is no simple answer. Race cars solve the issue with a roll cage. The only option we really have is to get the body pan stitch welded in critical areas but again unless your aim is motor sports it’s probably not something most would think about. To me it looks like that front anti-roll bar is already on it’s hardest setting.

hehe. I got a few of those suggestions done. Hopefully she’s nice and tight 

 

fyi that’s the softest setting

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Thanks all, great info.  Totally agree with the fact the suspension set up on these is less than ideal.  I would actually love to hit the guy over the head that came up with the IRS design.  I mean who in their right mind purposely designs a suspension system that deliberately introduces caster and camber changes through the range of travel?

Also agree these cars would benefit enormously with the rigidity of a roll cage.  I really don’t want to go down that path (yet) as I think it would spoil the car, but may have to one day.  Someone told me they make bolt in cages but not sure if that’s true?

Thanks Pete, I do think my roll bar is on the softest setting, I dropped the car off this morning so lets see how it comes up.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

After all, I have to remember it is just a little 600hp commuter

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

cava454 wrote:

Immortality wrote:

What these things really need is more rigidity in the body pan/chassis but unfortunately there is no simple answer. Race cars solve the issue with a roll cage. The only option we really have is to get the body pan stitch welded in critical areas but again unless your aim is motor sports it’s probably not something most would think about. To me it looks like that front anti-roll bar is already on it’s hardest setting.

hehe. I got a few of those suggestions done. Hopefully she’s nice and tight fyi that’s the softest setting

 

Right, I shouldn’t reply to threads after a long night shift…..

At the end of the day the sway bars are really for fine tuning the suspension understeer/oversteer etc The setting of shocks and springs are the primary avenue for setting up how the car handles.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Well there’s a trap for young players….  Looks like when I fitted the new ball joints to the nicely powdercoated uprights etc, over time the powder coating has worn away, result loose ball joints….  Sort of explain the vagueness and lack of steer!!  Big problem is I can only blame it on the stupidity of the builder- Me!!

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  VRSenator065.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Can you take a photo of what your talking about exactly?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Not yet I am only going by what he has told me over the phone.  But I think he means when I fitted the replacement lower ball joints they were bolted to the lower control arm.  I had masked off all the bolt holes etc, but I don’t think the mating surface.  So I fitted them and did the bolts up to the lower control arm and all good.  Sounds like over time they have moved slightly and the power coating has worn away and essentially meant the three bolts were not tight.  These ones here (pic off google)

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Best pic i can find on mine

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Yep makes sense. I should double check mine.

Mine were painted. Not powder coated tho.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

Funny you bring this up, I know of another guy on some other forum that had issues with the ball joints coming loose and he found the 2 mating surfaces weren’t 100% true which allowed things to move over time.  He ended up machining em to ensure they were flat I believe.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea, I think its maybe a bit of a wake up call.  When I get the car home, now its done almost 2,000ks I think I might stick it up on the hoist and go over everyhting and make sure its all tight etc.  I do keep a bit of n eye on it but will admit I haven’t actually just gone over absolutely everything.

[Slow355Participant Victoriahectic spec 355 vs ss ute View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 322]

I had a lower arm bent by nearly an inch, that doesnt help handeling, however helps to roll your guards. No idea how it happened.

Does you car track all over the place when braking at lights on main roads etc? My ute track width must be odd as on busy roads at braking points before lights gets all over the place if this makes sense. I am told the wide wheels make your car slightly wider than average car and doesnt sit in the grooves that cars have worn into road?

munch munch ls1s for lunch
Best 1/4 mile 13.1@105mph 60ft-1.8sec Reaction time .8 sec 0/100-4.8sec

[Slow355Participant Victoriahectic spec 355 vs ss ute View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 322]

VRSenator065 wrote:

After all, I have to remember it is just a little 600hp commuter

Just me or is she running hot?

munch munch ls1s for lunch
Best 1/4 mile 13.1@105mph 60ft-1.8sec Reaction time .8 sec 0/100-4.8sec

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Slow355 wrote:

I had a lower arm bent by nearly an inch, that doesnt help handeling, however helps to roll your guards. No idea how it happened. Does you car track all over the place when braking at lights on main roads etc? My ute track width must be odd as on busy roads at braking points before lights gets all over the place if this makes sense. I am told the wide wheels make your car slightly wider than average car and doesnt sit in the grooves that cars have worn into road?

lol u should drive my 80series with the 35’s

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

No it doesn’t run hot, the gauge has always read there, it is a Holden gauge of course

So picked up the car, like night and day.  So much better, he was really happy with how he got the rears and front.  As the issue was with the loose lower ball joints he set the front how he wanted it but left the sway bar alone.  He wants me to drive it for a little while, see if I like it and bring it back if I want.  I may myself put the sway bar to full stiff at some stage just to see how it feels.  Re braking, it actually tracks dead straight even under severe braking, its one of the things that was measured and checked to pass engineering.  Backing up what a couple of you have said he says the issue is the second gens don’t have a particularly stiff body, so its never going to be like a Formula Ford unless I put a full cage in it.  So for now will drive it as is and enjoy it for what it is.

 

Thanks for all the help/advice

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

Good to hear it’s sorted.

Regardless I don’t think the older Commodores are all that bad and considering the amount of power you are putting through the chassis is a couple of times more than ever intended it’s probably holding up quiet well.

 

Maybe some clever dick could design some sort of under body bracing tying together the front and rear chassis rails……

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

Myn also sits up there on temp gauge sometimes a tad more but water temp is 80 -85 degrees so good as

 

Myn also tracks straight under heavy breaking

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

The Commodore is technically a sound car so as long as your suspension is in good working order it will always track straight.  It’s not like we have re-invented the wheel here, rather all that has been done is fit some after market parts……..

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

^yea that’s true, but if you have basically totally stripped a car and rebuilt an entire car over 3 years theres always a concern stuff can happen.  Actually I fritzed one of the front ABS circuits which had me scratching my head for a while until I swapped out the ABS unit.  Been busy on family duties all week end so no chance to drive it really, looking forward to seeing what its like no over roads I know.

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