Improving VR Steering

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Gave my son a drive of my Senator on the week end.  One thing he thought was it would be nice to improve the steering (specifically turn in and feel) on it before we track it.

The car had done around 200,000km when i rebuilt it so maybe the rack could do with being rebuilt.  Not sure if that’s easy to do diy, or what it would cost to get done?

Also is it possible to swap the rack to a quicker ration one?  Any of you track guys done anything like that?

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

I can’t remember but do you have a strut brace fitted?  If not and you have the room for one I would recommend it.  Fitted on my old VN and it improved chassis stiffness in the front and improved turn in.

I find you can drive down the road, give a quick but small steering input and you can feel the front flex before it actually starts to turn, with the strut brace fitted this seemed to disappear.

Just jacking the car up under the K frame the distance between the struts will open up a touch and that is only a static load, just image what happens with the type of dynamic loads a cornering vehicle has…..

Edit, just went and had a look at your pics and you do have one fitted 

Does yours have the fancy variatronic steering rack or standard rack?  We have the variatronic rack in the missus Calais and that steering has no feel to it where as with the standard PS system you have more feed back from the steering.

 

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  Immortality.

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

Gary,

I think your first port of call is a wheel alignment. Something a little more suited to your application, not just a ‘minimise tyre wear’ approach.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

[TUFFVQ] wrote:

Gary, I think your first port of call is a wheel alignment. Something a little more suited to your application, not just a ‘minimise tyre wear’ approach.

 

Yeah there is that, local guy tweaked my wheel alignment something different from standard for a Commodore, made it a lot more touchy almost to much but once you got used to it it was great.  I’m not 100% certain but normally they are set with a bit of toe in but he possibly set it at zero.  What ever he did didn’t effect tyre wear either.

Another consideration is spring rates and shock settings.  Are your shocks adjustable?

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

+1 for a strut brace. They aren’t just for p platers. They do a lot.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Sorry guys i have actually jus had somethjng dug out of my eye and am struggling yo read anying. Will reply soon.

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

Been there, hope to never go there again………

[Slow355Participant Victoriahectic spec 355 vs ss ute View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 322]

Can get a change over rack for bugger all, i did one when we swapped motor out. Drove my ute first time in 4 months, wow its crap to drive lol, be straight to brake joint as has terrible brake shudder and likes to pull to the left.

I dont think i can run strut brace in my ute because of manifold

munch munch ls1s for lunch
Best 1/4 mile 13.1@105mph 60ft-1.8sec Reaction time .8 sec 0/100-4.8sec

[doz10Participant Qld93 VR SS View build HERE Member since: February 9, 2016 Posts: 125]

You’ve already got the strut brace stiffening front end up a bit, how about a pair of adjustable strut tops/caster plates, I swear by them i still remember the first time I drove my sisters old vn s pac which had a set of these in it, felt like it was on rails. Ever since I figured out the strut tops were all it took I’ve had them in every commodore I’ve owned

[doz10Participant Qld93 VR SS View build HERE Member since: February 9, 2016 Posts: 125]

Then if you want to stiffen it up a bit more get a whiteline or similar front sway bar and you’ll be surprised how much different it handles

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

Slow355 wrote:

Can get a change over rack for bugger all, i did one when we swapped motor out. Drove my ute first time in 4 months, wow its crap to drive lol, be straight to brake joint as has terrible brake shudder and likes to pull to the left. I dont think i can run strut brace in my ute because of manifold

A strut brace like below that goes behind the manifold should fit.

 

doz10 wrote:

You’ve already got the strut brace stiffening front end up a bit, how about a pair of adjustable strut tops/caster plates, I swear by them i still remember the first time I drove my sisters old vn s pac which had a set of these in it, felt like it was on rails. Ever since I figured out the strut tops were all it took I’ve had them in every commodore I’ve owned

Looks like he already has adjustable strut tops fitted so sway bars like you mentioned and wheel alignment might be the answer.

[doz10Participant Qld93 VR SS View build HERE Member since: February 9, 2016 Posts: 125]

I didn’t even think to look if he already had the strut tops, well yeah heavier front sway bar and a a bit more performance oriented wheel alignment or just to see if it helps maybe just a wheel alignment

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

LOL, I had to do the same, find a pic to see what was done.  Figure it would be easier to copy/post in this thread so all can see what has already been done.

I’ve got to go and get a strut brace for my Senator as well…..

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Hi all, thanks for that.

Yep I have race K-Mac strut tops, also as you can see the strut brace.  Now after reading your suggestions I remember the guy doing the wheel alignment when i first built it asking how I wanted it,  and I said it was a street car.  I reckon maybe its first up just a new wheel alignment with more aggressive race style set up.  Tbh I couldn’t care less about tyre wear, I just don’t do that many km.  When I built it I was told the Senator front sway bay was the go, there was no benefit in going bigger, so maybe for now I leave that.

I am just about to take the car to the Pedders around the corner and get a set of new rear caster/camber adjusters fitted as its has very bad rear neg camber right now.  I do have the G-Force cradle boxes but right now I cbf pulling the whole rear cradle out so this will keep me on the road enjoying it.  So maybe at the same time as doing the rear they I will see if they can dial in a little more steer.

Again thanks very much for your suggestions, will post up how I go

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by  VRSenator065.

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

I’m surprised that with all the suspension gear you have on it, it doesn’t feel pretty good.

It may be that the expectations need to be managed by keeping in mind that it is a 20yr old commodore 

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

[TUFFVQ] wrote:

I’m surprised that with all the suspension gear you have on it, it doesn’t feel pretty good. It may be that the expectations need to be managed by keeping in mind that it is a 20yr old commodore

 

Maybe cause it’s been compared to a Porsche which arguably has the best handling characteristics of any car built………

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

What sort of front sway bars are on it?

Tony, Vsclubby355 has tein coil overs, and it handles like it’s on rails.

What coil overs are in yours?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Yea I must say, its a hard ask to live up to me having a 911 daily, they are (in my experience) the best car for positive feel and turn in of just about anything going.  I guess it doesn’t help either that its a cast iron block in the front either.  Tbh its actually pretty good really, I reckon easy as good as the work SV6 VE, but since its adjustable I may as well play a little.  I know i expect a lot.

So its booked in for tomorrow to get the rear caster bushes changes out so hopefully get rid of the rear neg camber.  That should help with dumb ass tyre wear but also traction.

But I am also going to get them to tweak the front suspension, given its all pretty much fully adjustable to be a little more track orientated and aggressive.  Basically at this stage work with what I have got.  That’s I reckon the starting point then I can decide to go from there if i want.

You are right though I have to remember its a 20+ yo Commy.

Cav its an adjustable front sway bar, its one of the things they I’m sure will play around with tomorrow.

Will post up how it goes.

[Slow355Participant Victoriahectic spec 355 vs ss ute View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 322]

Was saying this today to cav, end of the day they are 20 year old holdens, that even in the day were not great handling. Not to mention a big fat v8 doesn’t help. Yes they raced them but they also had hundreds of thousands of dollars to play with them. Come drive my one and you will think yours is an f1 car.

munch munch ls1s for lunch
Best 1/4 mile 13.1@105mph 60ft-1.8sec Reaction time .8 sec 0/100-4.8sec

[ImmortalityParticipant 97 HSV Senator 185i 02 VX L67 Calais View build HERE Member since: August 31, 2015 Posts: 535]

What these things really need is more rigidity in the body pan/chassis but unfortunately there is no simple answer.  Race cars solve the issue with a roll cage.  The only option we really have is to get the body pan stitch welded in critical areas but again unless your aim is motor sports it’s probably not something most would think about.

To me it looks like that front anti-roll bar is already on it’s hardest setting.

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