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Wasn’t it Enzo Ferrari that said horsepower sells cars, torque wins races?
pir4te
- Mallala
- 640 HP hyper-cruising SS-V Flagonwagon
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Posts: 154
Wasn’t it Enzo Ferrari that said horsepower sells cars, torque wins races?
Carroll Shelby, actually. Ferrari is opposite – all HP.
Naturally as-pirated, all-motor.
do most people here understand the relationship between HP and torque?
torque x RPM at given moment = HP (in very relative terms)
Torque at low RPM will give you lots of low down power and driveability, torque at high RPM will give you an awesome peak dyno figure.
It was explained to me like this: (this doesn’t take into account drivetrain and other factors)
if at 2000RPM you are making 200nm of torque, your power output will be X
if at 4000RPM you are making 200nm of torque, your power output will be 2X
simples, right?….
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777The new holden block is meant to shit all over any aftermarket LS block
lol, coz no designer of something new ever made those sort of claims ever……
power is is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you push it back.
or torque is the size of the explosion in the engine, power is how quickly you can make them
power is proportional to torque x rpm. So to make more power, you either make more torque, by making a bigger bang, or you make more of them ie making it rev higher.
the 2x rule above you quote is only right if the torque curve is basically flat. On big lazy engines like mine it is, but on forced induction or very cammy engines generally it’s not.
torque doesn’t win races on the circuit, power does, because in a circuit race car it basically sitting up in the rev range where it’s making peak torque all the time, that’s why race cars have more gears, the gears are there to keep the engine spinning at high revs all the time.
At the end of the day a v8 block is a lump of metal with 8 holes in it. It’s one and only job is to make sure all the bits inside stay there all the time. There is no way one block can be so different to produce more or less performance. Provided it will hold together at the revs you need differences are about reliability and cost not power. Heads and rotating assembly lightness make the difference.
Anyone who says one block will make more power than another is kidding themselves or very very one eyed.
All comes down to head design and how much it can breathe…
An Engine is just an Airpump nothing more and agree 100% as long as the Block is strong enough to stay together and stay straight enough so it’s not robbing power through frictional losses it has bugger all effect on the output.
GMH-304
- Top End
- 82 VH SL, 86 VL SL, 99 VS SS Ute
View build HERE
Posts: 39The new holden block is meant to shit all over any aftermarket LS block. Torque doesn’t win races…..
That’s a big call, but they said the same thing between big paw and SBC back in the day. Look how that turned out for them.
The new holden block is meant to shit all over any aftermarket LS block. Torque doesn’t win races…..
That’s a big call, but they said the same thing between big paw and SBC back in the day. Look how that turned out for them.
So I’m told. Time will tell. It’s certainly looks the goods and offers everything an LSx block offer bar LSx is 6bolt mains (4 top, 2side) the TP is still traditional 4 bolt
VRSenator065
- Adelaide SA
- VR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project)
View build HERE
Posts: 5 777The thing to me is the LSx is produced in the US with a population of 300m people. There are so many people developing heads, cams, induction etc etc. I just can’t see how an Aussie product will ever compete especially on price HP for HP, it just comes down to market size. If I was making that block I would be seeing if it’s feasible for it to take LS heads. That would open up a world of options. Good discussion btw.
L
The thing to me is the LSx is produced in the US with a population of 300m people. There are so many people developing heads, cams, induction etc etc. I just can’t see how an Aussie product will ever compete especially on price HP for HP, it just comes down to market size. If I was making that block I would be seeing if it’s feasible for it to take LS heads. That would open up a world of options. Good discussion btw.
Cant be developing a holden based block and then tell them, ” hey you gotta run some 241 heads”
Nothing wrong the Holden heads. Believe it or not there are certain blokes that can push a genuine 700Hp + through the cast heads.
LF24
- Ipswich
- - \'99 ls1 Holden VS ute - \'02 HSV Maloo R8
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Posts: 57L
The thing to me is the LSx is produced in the US with a population of 300m people. There are so many people developing heads, cams, induction etc etc. I just can’t see how an Aussie product will ever compete especially on price HP for HP, it just comes down to market size. If I was making that block I would be seeing if it’s feasible for it to take LS heads. That would open up a world of options. Good discussion btw.
Cant be developing a holden based block and then tell them, ” hey you gotta run some 241 heads” Nothing wrong the Holden heads. Believe it or not there are certain blokes that can push a genuine 700Hp + through the cast heads.
but you can develop a Holden based block that takes chev internals?
TP Holden cast iron block = $6600. Anywhere out to 443ci. This block uses all Holden gear, the big paw (alloy up to 560ci) is filled with Chev components.
They did it for the SBC, designed a block that could take LS parts, why not give it a shot.
Some people need to meet certain requirements. Racing wise depending on classes.
I
GMH-304
- Top End
- 82 VH SL, 86 VL SL, 99 VS SS Ute
View build HERE
Posts: 39Torque Power fucked up with the little paw block by not offering the block with standard cam location.
Torque Power fucked up with the little paw block by not offering the block with standard cam location.
Pretty sure you can get it in Standard, thats what it says anyway.
http://www.torque-power.com.au/little_paw_specs_web.pdf
GMH-304
- Top End
- 82 VH SL, 86 VL SL, 99 VS SS Ute
View build HERE
Posts: 394. Cam Location Raised.
The numbers at the top are the camshaft journal size options.
Why would it be so important to have factory cam location ??
Didnt they raise it so they could fit massive lift cams ??
Don’t know about you but if I’m buying a $6000 block I’m not planing on running 0.600 lift cam nor do I want to be limited to that
GMH-304
- Top End
- 82 VH SL, 86 VL SL, 99 VS SS Ute
View build HERE
Posts: 39For restricted race categories that require factory block dimensions.
Also you’re kidding yourself if you think you’d be limited to .600″ lift.
So I’m guessing a big paw alloy block would also be no good as its 20mm wider ?
What about the COME alloy black they have made ??
4. Cam Location Raised. The numbers at the top are the camshaft journal size options.
Shit missed that hahaha How much of the market would that affect but?
GMH-304
- Top End
- 82 VH SL, 86 VL SL, 99 VS SS Ute
View build HERE
Posts: 39So I’m guessing a big paw alloy block would also be no good as its 20mm wider ? What about the COME alloy black they have made ??
What I mean by factory block dimensions is: bore spacing, cam location, deck height and pan rail width.
The COME block is to factory spec. From what I’ve heard COME used modified original Holden moulds
4. Cam Location Raised. The numbers at the top are the camshaft journal size options.
Shit missed that hahaha How much of the market would that affect but?
Someone on AV8 said TP would probably sell a few hundred. I would of thought a 1000+ would be the goal.
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