Holden V8 vs LSX Pros & Cons Discussion

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

Maybe the Aussie dollar goin to shit has raised the price because my engine is a 355 gold pro with up graded

head gaskets
2000 series bolts
Cast crank to forged was from $700 from $2700
Arp head stud kit
Custom ground cam in any spec
And few other things and that just over $15 k

Pavteks heads for me was $3k and goin from them to alloys would of been $1 to 2 k more as you say 4-5 k total

Pavteks orgional price before these changes for a of the shelf engine 2 years ago $12 k with me supply block is is another $1000 if you don’t have it

[Anonymous View build HERE Member since: January 1, 1970 Posts: 0]

Are the HP figures you guys are quoting Flywheel or Wheel?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

My numbers are fly, made 508rwhp, haven’t had it on an engine dyno but my rough as rule of thumb for stalled auto is rwhp = fwkW. Total generalization of course But never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

And also they make a 555 hp witch they say isnt great for efi but that’s only because it’s cam is in the 25# 26# range but lots have these cams in efi quite fine

Iv got a mate with a 26# 26# cam in a 355 VS senator that drives it 300+ km one way quite often and you would be supprised how user friendly it is

And that power is on 98

If you switch heads to comes alloys, put a 383 crank instead of 355 and slightly raise comp for e85 and if that doesn’t make 600hp then I will chop of my big toe, add a vac pump and there still more there to be had

I would say just raise comp and 383 would get on the 600hp door steps for $15-16k and I would bet that price has manifold and carbie so ditching that is where the price would come down a bit

It’s not all that hard to do for very smart engine builders, it just is when some one starts picking each piece of the build that isnt a smart engine builder and thinks he knows best because he has read street commodores mags power up tips section

Look at the ford engines they build

Over 800hp out a 434 CI on 98

[Narva*2010Participant Narva*2010VC Commodore View build HERE Member since: March 5, 2015 Posts: 87]

Only thing is, there’s a bit of block prep involved when you start going out at 383. Then you have to start thinking about 4 bolt mains or stud girdle at the least and updating a few other things, the roll on effect that comes with 600+ hp.  But I agree Manta, it’s not too difficult to make that power fairly cheaply, hard part would be getting it all to last with that budget.

[Dan811Participant SE Melbourne02 Monaro M6 LS1 View build HERE Member since: March 4, 2015 Posts: 124]

Also keep in mind your ancillaries when looking at a rebuild/conversion.

Will you need a new/secondhand alternator, power steering rack/pump, water pump, belts/pulleys, radiator, the list goes on.

I’ve been looking at rebuilding the lS1 or going an LS3 conversion, and when you look deeper there are small costs that all add up. Little things like new oils and fluids, gaskets for everything, even head studs and Balancer bolts and the list just goes on and on.

Then of course your own self-control comes into play. If you’re going to pull the whole engine apart, how far do you go? whilst your at it you’ll decide to change XYZ because you’ve already gone to the trouble of pulling it apart anyways, and soon your whole budget blows out.

Do LOTS of research and plan your build out first, and whatever figure you come up with, add a couple of grand to be safe, that’s just how it always pans out.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

My advice if you are starting to modify your car, and you are also worried about money. Put down that spanner, slowly back away from the car, close the shed, lock the door and go and take a good lie down….

You will spend more than you wanted too, it will take longer than you expected, and no matter how much power you make or what time you run you will always want more. And as I said before HP costs…

[hsv865Participant St ClairVS Senator View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 91]

going back a bit,its apples & oranges 5L iron vs 5.7L (basic)alloy,correct me if I’m wrong alloy heads are less susceptible to detonation,also with new rego laws(if looking to be legit,not saying I’m an angel either)lsx is popular because it didn’t come in an aussie delivered car,making emissions to the car not year of motor build.

also seen a 460 big paw at G force the other day,bloody inlet on heads is huge (like roll a golf ball down there,haha)valve the size of a tennis ball,said he’d done 1 with a small cam (don’t ask don’t know)that went 651rwhp,carb, max power at 7200,9k them blocks(alloy),went straight out en bought more lotto tickets,haha, look unreal!

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I don’t think you are right about the LSx and emissions, at least here in SA I have had to comply with the emissions laws as they stand now i.e. current in a 93 VR.

[hsv865Participant St ClairVS Senator View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 91]

not often I’m right,i thought thats how it is up here.why would we have national laws,that s another debate,haha

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

I really think we are looking at this from the wrong angle

We are comparing modern LS engines of today to holden 304 and 346 stroker from 20+ years ago

Why not compare the holden 304 and there 5.7 215i stroker partners to say L81 l82 and l83 307 and 350 chevs for a comparable of the times with similar comps and CI

I’m sure if holden continued building the holden engine up to today it would be greatly improved by now coming out in hi comp to complete with the LS doin basic tune exhaust cam packages to make good power on a comparable level

It’s like comparing a camery engine of today to the one 20+ years ago

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I think it’s a fair comparison and a good discussion. It’s comparing what’s available today with what’s available today. It’s started out of a discussion as to whether it’s worth doing LS swaps. The fact the technology is newer for the LS than the Holden is exactly the main reason I went to it. I don’t buy if Holden kept up with the V8 it would have ended up as good as an LS, the SBC is a much better engine imo than a Holden, and yet chev ditched that to go to the LS style, so even they knew there was only so far you can flog a dead horse before you start again. Which they did and by any measure created a magnificent design and architecture in the LS with huge potential.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[Slow355Participant Victoriahectic spec 355 vs ss ute View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 322]

I know i make bugger all power but i made 411hp or engine dyno with 406foot pound of torque, had 390 at around 3 grand and sat around that until 5k revs.

Think my motor owes me about 6-7k but the advantage was i kept engine numbers etc and more authentic lol I guess i could have done a ls conversion but couldn’t be arsed, stroking was easier. Just made do with stock box whilst building new one and my old zaust was usable.  I am sure a camed ls is quicker but tuned ls has zero chance against this combo.

So yes camed ls is quicker but could i get a cammed ls into my ute for under ten k, i highly doubt it.

munch munch ls1s for lunch
Best 1/4 mile 13.1@105mph 60ft-1.8sec Reaction time .8 sec 0/100-4.8sec

[hsv865Participant St ClairVS Senator View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 91]

<span style=”color: #555555; font-family: Oxygen, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 20px; background-color: #fbfbfb;”>munch munch ls1s for lunch       hahaha</span>

big % of cat back ls over ls with heads,cam on street,loud not always fast

mate I’m gunna steal that line,its a beauty,haha

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

Can someone tell me what makes a Holden 304 so hard to work on?

They’re about as simple as it gets.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

[TUFFVQ] wrote:

Can someone tell me what makes a Holden 304 so hard to work on? They’re about as simple as it gets.

 

Not hard. But Ls much easier.

Rubber gaskets etc on intake manifold. etc

 

only shit thing about Ls is heads off to do lifters.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Not that it matters as I will pull the heads when I do it anyway, but i think i remember reading with the LSx block you dont have to remove the heads to do the lifters, or am I dreaming?

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Not sure about LSx but alloy blocks you do.

I wouldn’t remove heads unless u have to. Unnecessary work.

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

Don’t have to lift heads on Holden V8 either.
I’ve never had issues with intake manifold gaskets. They’re easy.

[hsv865Participant St ClairVS Senator View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 91]

not bad right up in sm for the old plastic,big props mce(“the thing i love about building Holden v8s is they will make real horsepower ,hp for hp,the holden v8 will run quicker than an ls1)end quote.

munch munch ls1 for lunch..lol

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