Holden V8 vs LSX Pros & Cons Discussion

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Well from an engineering point of view I hope this wall thickness is something they address. Hopefully that’s just a prototype issue.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by  VRSenator065.

[Narva*2010Participant Narva*2010VC Commodore View build HERE Member since: March 5, 2015 Posts: 87]

Think it’s only oil pump pick-up.  Not alot of torque required and addtional bracket off oil pick up tube is secured via one mains bolt.   But can see your point.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Agreed its not a biggie, but its not good either, at least it doesn’t look too hard to correct (if they haven’t already)

[KroozerParticipant Forbes, NSW91 VN SS View build HERE Member since: February 19, 2015 Posts: 336]

Bloody good eye Gary and this was on the 2nd proto so if its a problem im sure it will be rectified

[muckrunner30Participant VZ SSZ Crewman AU XR8 ute View build HERE Member since: April 6, 2015 Posts: 13]

We talk about bang for buck being in the LS side but what if you have a 5 litre powered commodore or kingswood and only have 5-10k buddget for everything, engine, trans, fuel system, full exhaust, mounts, tuning,

Is 5-10k better off spent on the 5 litre getting it angry or a LS conversion?

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

muckrunner30 wrote:

We talk about bang for buck being in the LS side but what if you have a 5 litre powered commodore or kingswood and only have 5-10k buddget for everything, engine, trans, fuel system, full exhaust, mounts, tuning, Is 5-10k better off spent on the 5 litre getting it angry or a LS conversion?

10k doesn’t get u far when ur talking about doing all of that. Would be hard pressed to do it all with an Ls conversion.   What exactly are u after. And what car?

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Not sure about a Kingy, but an LS conversion into a early Commodore is going to set you back circa $7k for a basic swap. That’s buying a second hand good nick LS1 with trans, starter conversion kit, exhaust, ECU, loom, engine mounts etc. Thats auto for auto, manual for manual, no fuel upgrades etc. Start chasing big HP and triple that easy. I can’t comment on how much the equivalent is for a Holden based engine. IMHO if you aren’t chasing hp, and your current 5L is sound then just doing a basic LS swap probably doesn’t make sense, its if you then chase some hp that the ease of doing that with the LS makes the swap start to be justified. (just my opinion)

[Narva*2010Participant Narva*2010VC Commodore View build HERE Member since: March 5, 2015 Posts: 87]

TP Holden cast iron block = $6600.  Anywhere out to 443ci. This block uses all Holden gear, the big paw (alloy up to 560ci) is filled with Chev components.

I am told, you can use most of your existing holden parts, minus cam @ $700, lifters @ $1000.  You need his timing chain ass. and cam / lifters due to cam offset.  Timing chain  @$200. Can use your rocker gear (for this motor, I’d be using decent gear) Need his pistons.  YT heads bolt on even though his blocks have provision for 6 stud style TP head or T&M adapted head.  Holden sump bolts on.  Rod length determines capacity.

So not totally out of reach, will still add up though. But you pay for quality. Would be worth looking into vs doing LS conversion if you plan to hot the LS up a bit.

But with TP little paw, no need to stress about stroker clearance issues, grout filling to strengthen block, oiling modifications etc as you do with a convensional Holden block because he has addressed all of these issues with thicker water jacket walls, valley webbing, primary oil mains oiling mods etc.  Roller block with all mains being 4 bolt too.

Definately food for thought…

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by  Narva*2010.

[muckrunner30Participant VZ SSZ Crewman AU XR8 ute View build HERE Member since: April 6, 2015 Posts: 13]

cava454 wrote:

muckrunner30 wrote:

We talk about bang for buck being in the LS side but what if you have a 5 litre powered commodore or kingswood and only have 5-10k buddget for everything, engine, trans, fuel system, full exhaust, mounts, tuning, Is 5-10k better off spent on the 5 litre getting it angry or a LS conversion?

10k doesn’t get u far when ur talking about doing all of that. Would be hard pressed to do it all with an Ls conversion. What exactly are u after. And what car?

already had 5 litres and now got an LS, my question is everyone is saying the LS is better bang for buck which when talking of bare engines is true, but if you already have an early girl with a 5 litre or 308 is your bang for buck better off staying with a 5 litre and working that instead of spending most of your budget on a conversion? I’m talking a mild budget, if money is no object and numbers are then I understand LS all the way

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I paid $12.5k for a fully assembled crate LSx454, add a sump, alternator, water pump, fast manifold, your looking at an easy 620+ hp, 600+ ft/lb torque, in a totally unstressed engine with a baby cam NA. Add a decent cam, tickle the heads, decent induction gotta be pushing 700+ hp, still NA. I still think given $ for $ making bigger numbers with the LS is easier BUT you have to factor in the conversion cost. I agree though above is def food for thought.

[Narva*2010Participant Narva*2010VC Commodore View build HERE Member since: March 5, 2015 Posts: 87]

Very broad question Muckrunner 30.  Depends on intended application, future mods as funds become available etc.  As others have said, regardless of what engine mods you do, you may still have to address driveline and fuel system to cope.  You would blow most of your budget doing the LS conversion side of things and still have the standard output.

That crate engine is pretty good value!

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Narva*2010 wrote:

That crate engine is pretty good value!

Yea that’s what I thought (and think), really would be pretty difficult to buy any off the shelf crate motor with those sorts of numbers for the price. Mind you as you point out above, when the numbers increase its all the supporting stuff that starts the price creep. My fuel system with pumps wouldn’t leave me much change from $2k, and I made up all the braided lines, hard lines etc myself. HP costs…

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Budget dictates everything. Until a number is stated its all gossip.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

^ I do certainly agree that an overall budget is a great start, but also the final intended use/power/application needs to be considered at the same time. It may be if you plan eventually going bigger its worth investing in some stuff (e.g stronger bottom end) rather than something that may do the job now but later be an issue.

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

My motor was only slightly more then yours Gary

If I went my motor in 383 with 13.0:1 hi comp for e85 it would of come in about 2k cheaper or pretty much exactly the same as $12500 as I have the steel crank not a cast crank

So could have a 600+hp N/A holden for about the same cost of the lsx454

I know the lsx can be upgraded more though just saying for the conversion sake

I think the winning bang for buck now for 650-800hp and reliable is a LSA create engine

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

No I get you Pete, actually nice to have a decent discussion on this topic with people quoting actual real numbers,and not arcing up at each other about it

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

vs manta 218 wrote:

My motor was only slightly more then yours Gary If I went my motor in 383 with 13.0:1 hi comp for e85 it would of come in about 2k cheaper or pretty much exactly the same as $12500 as I have the steel crank not a cast crank So could have a 600+hp N/A holden for about the same cost of the lsx454 I know the lsx can be upgraded more though just saying for the conversion sake I think the winning bang for buck now for 650-800hp and reliable is a LSA create engine

Think your under estimating what it costs to have a 600HP naturally aspirated holden based engine….

It won’t be very streetable either.

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

This cost $12 grand

Tell them to throw a 383 crank and rods in it and to make the comp 13.0:1 and I’ll bet my left testie it makes 600hp on e85

And I bet it comes in under $13 grand

The biggest price blow out would be it’s right on the limits of needing come 600series heads and would blow the cost out another $1 or 2 grand over the Pavteks full race port heads

Dam it why won’t links work ??

Pavteks gold pro 355 is the link

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by  vs manta 218.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by  vs manta 218.

[vs manta 218Participant Vs hsv manta View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 796]

Streetable is all in the tune

Iv seen some big cammed Holden engines behave surprisingly well lately, just as good as decent cammed LS engines

I’m not saying it’s a easy walk in the park to do bit the people iv been talking to who have got 600hp N/A engines havemt spent massive coin

It’s more they are just very smart and know what there doin and how to build a good combo that works

On 98 it’s a stupid job to achieve but bit high comp and e85 makes it easier to achieve these days

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by  vs manta 218.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

vs manta 218 wrote:

This cost $12 grand Tell them to throw a 383 crank and rods in it and to make the comp 13.0:1 and I’ll bet my left testie it makes 600hp on e85 And I bet it comes in under $13 grand The biggest price blow out would be it’s right on the limits of needing come 600series heads and would blow the cost out another $1 or 2 grand over the Pavteks full race port heads Dam it why won’t links work ?? Pavteks gold pro 355 is the link

pavtek have a discounted gold pro motor 525HP at 16k for long motor atm.

There would be close to 4-5k alone in a COMPLETE set of heads to make that sort of power. Then a Solid roller in the high to low 260’s/270’s, with some decent spring pressure.

Not something u could really take on a 200-300km cruise. Prob have be replacing lifters every 5k to be safe also.

Ported single plane etc with plenum and runner work. All adds up. Be very close to 20k complete

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by  cava454.

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