Atlas Grey VQ Statesman 304

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Nice work mate, love to be looking over your shoulder

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

Thanks Gary. The Tunerpro software is actually really good for free software. They guys at delcohacking have really put some time into making the product. I’m very happy.

Below is a history table from a MAF equipped car (just random off the net) but it gives you an idea of the history tables. So for example, when you drive around it populates the matrix on the table with the values the computer receives at different load points, then averages them out. So I can see at what load points I’m running rich/lean, or when I put a knock sensor in I can find areas where my timing is too aggressive.

I can also have it run using AFRs as there is a target AFR table when it enters closed loop mode, but for inital tuning I’ve got it set to open loop so I’m not chasing my tail. Then the on-going tweaks can be made by the ECU with reference to the Wideband.

Once I get all the fuelling sorted, I’ll play with Accelerator Enrichment, look into tweaking the rev-limit settings, look at enabling lean cruise, then start working with the Flex Outputs. With the software mods I can now hookup 4 of the unused pins to create 4 x PWM outputs. I’m hoping to utilise 2 of them for some ‘smart’ fan outputs on my EL Falcon thermofans. PWM on my 044 would be good also.

I’ve also eliminated the fuel smell due to using cheap braided line by running the hard line and standard hose joiners. I’ve mostly stopped the oil leak as I believe it was puking out the dipstick socket on the sump.

Happy days.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Very very cool, so much flexibility with modern EFI.  You have reminded me I need to at some stage hook up my fuel pump pwm unit as well.  How are you thinking of doing that, just based on rpm, ie once it goes over say 3,000 rpm it turns it to full on?

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

The 12P software on the delco allows you to make fully customisable maps for each output, so you can have 3D mapping on the output from almost any parameter.

For example, I could setup a 3D Map of RPM vs MAP, or 2D map against Injector Duty Cycle for PWM on a fuel pump.

For use on the thermofans, I can setup a 2D map against coolant temp, or a 3D of Coolant Temp vs Road Speed.

Limited only by your imagination really. The example below was for a guy that wanted to run methanol injection on a boosted engine once it hit 3psi manifold pressure. This is a pretty basic use of it but handy nonetheless.

 

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Bloody hell, mate that’s really impressive.

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

I went out tuning the other night, had some opportunity to give it a decent hit or two.

It feels good at heavy throttle – still some fine tuning of the mixtures to make it a bit more stable, as it varies between 12.3-12.9 under power. Once I get that sorted I’ll just be playing around with mid-range stuff. I’d really like to know what I should be aiming for at light throttle acceleration, like 2400-3200rpm regular street cruising (which is light throttle for me due to throttle bodies and stall size).

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

I have actually just designed a 3D printed gizmo to attach to my accelerator linkage so I can adjust the revs with a screw keeping them dead constant.  The plan is then to put it on the dyno and run it a dead constant 2,000rpm and tune for just that, then 3,000 etc.  Anyone can tune for wot, but that mid range is the difference between something enjoyable to drive and a pig.  When I drove mine back from the detailers yesterday its honestly borderline boring cruising along at 2,000rpm and constant speed, you simply would have no idea whats under your foot if you want it.

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

So in an unexpected turn of events, I’m kinda thinking of getting rid of this, for a couple of reasons.

1. My old man is about to start building a VQ. I haven’t spoken to him yet, but he was planning on starting from scratch (paint and panel etc.) from 2 cars he has in his yard to make one good one. I was thinking of sorta ‘paying him back’ for the help on my cars over the years by giving him mine (maybe minus a few bits here and there).

2. Whilst the VQ’s paint is pretty good, the interior is starting to show signs of ageing due to UV (trim drying out etc).

3. I’ve reached a point with this car that it really is only an N/A rig. To go faster, I’d need to spend probably 5 grand on a fresh aspirated engine to go maaaybe 1 second quicker down the quarter. The T700 would probably be marginal at that point, so I’d need to put in a 3 speed. Another 2.5k.

4. I started working on this car when I was 19 (12 years ago – yikes). I’ve learnt a lot since then, so there’s lots of little bits (particularly wiring) that really isn’t great. I’d like a fresh start on a blank canvas being able to use what I’ve learnt.

5. I don’t get ‘excited’ to drive it any more. It doesn’t feel at all fast and I’m so used to the way it behaves that I chopped it sideways on Saturday, corrected it no worries all the while sort of going ‘meh’. There should be some passion in your toys.

6. I really want a proper fast car in my lifetime. I’m moving toward other things in my life that I enjoy working on, and having too many projects on the go means I might get two ‘not bad’ cars rather than one ‘I really enjoy this’ car.

So, considering I have to invest a fair bit of coin to go any further with this car, I’m thinking it’s time to make a break on it. I’ll drive this one for a few more months until the rego is due in January. Then probably offer it up to the old man. If fhe doesn’t want it, I’ll strip it down and offer a roller if anyone wants it.

Next step – Get serious on the VN. Heart says turbo 304 (nostalgia). Mind says Turbo LS1.

Mind will probably win. So I’ll flog off all my 304 parts (engines, heads, T5 conversion, any parts the old man doesn’t want etc. etc.) then try and grab an LS, Turbo 400, Trutrak, fab up some manifolds, intake piping and exhaust, maybe a cam kit if I can.

Anyway, none of this will happen in a rush. Lots of financial commitments means it will be a slow process unless I win the lottery. (I’ll laugh at this in a years time when I have no VQ, a non-working VN and a lot of parts missing….)

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

[TUFFVQ] wrote:

I don’t get ‘excited’ to drive it any more. 

Well I reckon that’s the one that really matters, if its not pressing your buttons anymore time to move on (imo)

[jlssParticipant tasvr ss View build HERE Member since: May 7, 2015 Posts: 155]

I was getting like that. Normal 5l arnt that exciting but sound sweet.

Had been saving for a while Then my whipple kit came up and a got offered an awesome price so threw my savings at it. Then saved again while the charger sat on my bar top in my man cave (good talking point when mates came around) ha ha

It took me a while to save up again to get my install sorted and we had a lil girl so yeah didnt rush. yeah logically i would of went a ls but ohwell ive got a holden in my holden. Lol. No offence to the chev guys.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

No offense taken , nothing wrong with the Holden V8, more than one way to skin a cat.  Cars are sometimes about it sort of evolving as time goes by rather than being able to start with a clean sheet of paper.  I reckon if you do start from scratch sort of like I did the LS is hard to beat, but if you develop your car as time goes by no reason you cant screw big power out of the Holden architecture, but I do sort of think $ for $ the LS wins out.  But that beautiful exhaust note is def Holden.

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

I’ve essentially wanted a Turbo 8 for about…. 9 years?

Time to actually do something about it I think. ATM I’ve got the VQ, the VN and a station car. Want to pare that down to 1 toy car and a motorbike for commuting.

I do love the 304 and the sound, and I know them back to front, but I’ve got to be realistic on what I can achieve. In an ideal world I’d have a 304 T5 ‘handling’ car, a cranky aspirated 304/355 auto, and a turbo LS. However, that’s not all happening. Pick one. In the current climate, it makes sense to have a quiet car that doesn’t arouse too much suspicion. Nothing hanging out of, or on, the bonnet. Full exhaust. Sensible ride height. Then focus on making it quick.

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

[TUFFVQ] wrote:

Full exhaust. Sensible ride height.

Varex, and air bags.  The air bags I would do if I were to do mine again…

[[TUFFVQ]Participant Melbourne1991 VQ 304 View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 171]

OK So I did a bit of a stock take of the garage. It seems I’ve got quite a lot of parts for the 304 to suit boost.

On The Shelf Parts
GT4088 1.34 rear
3 x cranks
A set of resized A9L’s with ARPs (3 x sets of stockers)
Speed Pro 30thou over Dished pistons (A copy of ACL Duralites) – massive ring lands
A set of ACL Race/King Bearings
ARP Head Studs
ARP Main Studs
Cometic MLS Head Gaskets suit 30 over bore
Crane Dual Valve Springs and Retainers
Teflon Stem Seals
Engine Gasket Set
NOS Cam Plate, Cam Bolt, Crank Bolt, Oil Pump Driveshaft and Gear etc etc
A half-finished intake manifold with a forward facing throttle to fit under the bonnet with a larger plenum than bananas.

Parts that can be cannibalised from the VQ
Virgin bore Block with smoothed Valley and reco’d/TK-approved Oil Pump
Mild Port Reco Heads with 2.02″/1.60″ Stainless Valves
Yella Terra RR
High Energy Sump
Turbosmart 1:1 Rising Rate Reg
The fully programmable Delco (suits up to 2bar boost)
80L Tank with E85 Lift Pump
Big Trans cooler with thermostat controlled Fan

Parts I’d need
Cam to suit boost (Thinking 222/224 @ 0.050, 114LSA, .500″ lift)
Lifters
Pushrods
Machining (~$1500)
Injectors to suit E85 (I think I’d need 80lbs)
Some sort of decent, not as noisy as an 044, E85 compatible external pump.
Turbo 400 and convertor.
Trutrak/Torquelock Centre (3.08 gears will be fine I think.)
Intercooler
Wastegate
BOV
Steampipe and Alloy Pipe

The only thing in the “Part I’d need” section that I wouldn’t need if I went LS is the Machining. But I would need the following for an LS Conversion as a minimum:
Mounts
Starter Swap Kit
Engine, accessories, loom and ECU
HPTuners or EFILive (whatever the better one is)
Bigger turbo (GT40 frame is probably too small for LS)

Looks like I’ve convinced myself.
I think I’d need no more than 350rwkw in the VN to get a 10. Considering a stock motor can get 300rwkw fairly easily with a stock cam on 10-12psi, I don’t think this is an unreasonable ask. It will probably be toward the top end of the turbo compressor, however…

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

You have a lot of goodies there to suit the Holden.  If I had all that don’t think I would go LS.  Btw missed off your list of needs for the LS swap is also a set of conversion Headers, also modified tail shaft, bit of messing around with the radiator, and modifying the front k frame.

[cava454Moderator 93 VR BT1 View build HERE Member since: February 20, 2015 Posts: 2 390]

Fresh 304. 284 and your 4088 will make 300-320 all day long.

[Slow355Participant Victoriahectic spec 355 vs ss ute View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 322]

Looking good mate! Seen this about few years back, tuff looking rig. WHat was your best run at heathcote? I only ever done passes there never hit caulder.

munch munch ls1s for lunch
Best 1/4 mile 13.1@105mph 60ft-1.8sec Reaction time .8 sec 0/100-4.8sec

[BLOWNVSParticipant WAVS MALOO VR BT1 project car BF MK II XR6T View build HERE Member since: March 2, 2015 Posts: 47]

Turbo 304/355 is the go man. That turbo should have enough compressor there to get you your 10 no worries. I bought a turbo setup years ago that used a  gt4088 1.34 t4 flanged turbo ( never used it in the end..) but the guy that used it before me (spasm aka scott355 off st coms forum) went 10.80 ish @136 with a mild 355 on pump 98 in a vn ss from memory. I’m keen to see some updates once the new project car starts. There’s not much of us die hard Holden v8 guys left!!

• This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by  BLOWNVS.

[doz10Participant Qld93 VR SS View build HERE Member since: February 9, 2016 Posts: 125]

Yeah go turbo holden mate you have most of the parts you need already and plenty of spares just in case

[VRSenator065Participant Adelaide SAVR Senator LSx454 1960 Kombi (project) 1921 Nash Hot Rod (future project) View build HERE Member since: February 17, 2015 Posts: 5 777]

Dumb ass lS owner question here, but can you go 383 with the Holden block?  Or is 355 pretty much it before you go aftermarket billet block?

 

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